That's the thing, he wouldn't tell me the supposed genetics. He said the breeder told him to sell them as normals for $30, so he can't tell me what the sire was or he could sell them for a lot more. He said he was only selling them as normals, but he guaranteed that if someone wanted to take the time to breed him back to his daughters, they would produce visuals. I normally would just laugh and walk away, but I really liked this guy and I respect the seller, so I grilled him for a while and bought him. Only time will tell, if this project doesn't get pushed aside.