Live food...why? Honestly & with facts!

[Egapal]

egapal, i was agreeing with you on most of the things, and trying to debate on the others. You're acting really argumentative and i think taking what i'm saying the wrong way.


BTW what is your definition of domesticated? I copy/pasted the actual definition, so please do, let's see what you come up with. That is why i said you can't argue with it...it IS a fact because that is what the word means. *rolls eyes*

Like I said you clearly don't understand the words you copy and pasted. You did not provide any evidence that BP became accustomed to human provisions and control through selection. 15 or 20 years is not enough time for the generations necessary for any level of domestication without massive selection the likes of which I have never even heard of with BP's. I am argumentative if you define that as disagreeing with you.

you also said previously that ball pythons were naturally docile. then you just said that they aren't and went on a fussy paragraph to me about how they have, and have never been chosen from the wild because they are docile. *lol* you are really going at it.

I never said they aren't docile. Their natural defense mechanism in the wild is to curl up in a ball. That's not something we domesticated them to do. They do that in the wild. I am not sure what you didn't understand.

ALso, in this thread people have said they throw rats or mice in the cages or tubs, and walk away for hours. I don't know why you're defending the site as if i'm attacking it and saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying i know i won't get people to not feed live, but they can at least watch to make sure the snakes are okay.

I am defending this site because you seam to be attacking feeding live with everything you have said. You say you know you won't get people to change but you seam to be suggesting that they should. Feeding live is not the problem. Not watching is a problem and its something that this forum has been very clear about. I agree they should watch when feeding live but its not a case of "at least." There is nothing wrong with feeding live if done correctly.

also, you can freeze and unfreeze a steak all you want. has nothing to do with the fact that ball pythons will eat dead animals in the wild. has nothing to do with the fact that freezing does kill a lot of bacteria, so that even though the frozen/thawd mouse might stink, and be decaying, it can still be processed by the snake's body. True that wild snakes can and will and may get sick from eating dead animals. But they DO eat them. i don't know why you said i was trying to convince you otherwise or whatever it was you said you couldn't be convinced of. I actually clearly said that though i didn't like it, you should feed your snake what it will eat *shrug*

You again totally missed the point. I can be convinced by good evidence backed arguments. What the animal does in the wild is not a good basis for an argument. Now if you could address the actual point I made. Would you eat a steak that you thawed left out for a few hours, froze, thawed left out for a few hours, froze and then thawed again? I would not and I will not feed a likewise treated rodent to my snakes.

THe single only thing i have been trying to convince anyone of was that they should watch their snakes when there is live prey in the bin with them so that they don't get hurt, because they CAN get hurt.
Other than that, i had my question as to WHY people feed live, answered. People worry about cost, and they find it easier to feed live.
Since finding that out, all i said was that i find it cheaper to feed thawed.
In response, someone else said THEY found it more expensive to throw out uneaten food...to which i said, i have not found it more expensive. That i had only thrown out food a few times. That i DO refreeze, and my snakes are and do NOT get sick.

If all you got from this thread was that people feed live because its easier and they worry about cost then you have missed some really good points. Your point about watching live feedings is taken. Its also one that has been made in nearly every post concerning feeding live on this forum. As for your snakes. The fact that they do NOT get sick is not even close to the only thing that needs to be considered when making decisions on husbandry.

Not only can that be proven by the fact that my snakes just aren't sick, but freezing DOES kill bacteria that would make them sick. Fact.

I don't mean to be rude but you do not understand how to prove things. You are presenting a correlation that does not prove causation. Live rodents have virtually no chance of getting sick from bacteria from live prey. They do have a chance of picking up parasites that freezing does kill. If parasites were the only thing to consider we would all feed f/t. Unfortunately like I said there is more to consider.

If the food item does start to stink, and break down, that bacteria is NOT bad for the snake.
And, snakes in the wild DO consume rotten or rotting food. Yes those snakes do get sick. There are also other parasites and bacteria working on the wild rotted food item.
ANyway, i was bringing up the "in the wild" thing because....it's just a fact i am using to show you that eating dead food in captivity is not just a captive thing, it is also practiced in the wild. FACT.

I don't know any other way to say this. Just because something happens in the wild does not mean its good for the snake. You have to prove that its good for the snake. I won't drink milk past the sell by date. It won't make me sick I just have enough money to not bother risking it. I can also afford fresh rodents.

WHew...lastly i posted the pics of the snakes, because i was pointing out what happens when you leave snakes unattended with live food items. I did not at all say that feeding live caused dehydration or starvation. Please reread if you think i did. I clearly was just saying what had happened along WITH a poor live feed, for these two snakes.

I thought you were cool, man.

I am cool man. I am sure we would get along great if we met. I understand why you posted the pics. My point is that we have all seen these pics. We don't feed live because we just never thought about it. Its dishonest of you to put a picture of a BP nearly gutted by a rabbit in a thread where you are trying to make the point that feeding F/T is safer. It's simply not relevant in that it was hurt by a rabbit. Nearly no one would consider feeding a rabbit to their BP and if they did it would be a baby not capable of the damage you showed. By posing that picture you are saying that we are putting our snakes at that kind of risk without actually saying the words. That's just dishonest. The picture of the dehydrated starved snake is equally not relevant. Its an emotional plea. I thought you were cool too. That's why I gave you an honest detailed response. That's why I have taken the time to respond to each of the points you have made. Are you trying to say that disagreeing with you makes me not cool or is in the passion with which I speak?