Pine Bedding Bad for Rats?

[Krynn]

After reading more of the studies that have directly addressed the toxicity of pine I am actually leaning more towards the side that "Pine is perfectly fine to use for rodents". Ill give my reasons in a tick.

I did want to say that it is driving me nuts to see the reasons why people are completely discarding these studies. You guys are claiming that these studies are not reputable, yet quite a number of them are coming from peer reviewed journals. I personally cannot think of a more "reputable" source then this so i am still curious as to what you guys consider reputable.

Reptilegirl07: no these studies are not conducted over the course of "weeks, if that long" or they would be ripped apart in the peer evaluation process. If you read the studies you will find they tend to average between 4 and 8 months. Even if you guys are completely on the opposite side of this argument, take the time to read these studies before you discard them.

Is there a bias to these studies? Yes, but likely not in the way you are thinking. These scientists arnt working for Carefresh trying to make you stop using pine for your pets, like some people seem to be insinuating. These guys are SCIENTISTS giving information to other SCIENTISTS doing research on pine beddings. Keep in mind that hundreds of thousands of rodents are being used each year for scientific studies. If you are doing any sort of pharmacological, or physiological testing on rodents, and their enzymes are changing in response to their bedding, this is no longer a controlled study! This is why these studies are done, and this is the context that they are done.

Also keep in mind that there seems to be a bit of debate in the scientific community as well on the subject, as here is a paper claiming that there are no differences in overall health between mice house on carefresh, pine, or even cedar!:
Becker C.E., Mathur C.F., Rehnberg B.G.2010.The Effects of Chronic Exposure to Common Bedding Materials on the Metabolic Rate and Overall Health of Male CD-1 Mice. Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science. 13:46-55.

So like i said, i am starting to lean towards the "Pine is ok" side now. One thing that i would keep in mind however, is that if you medicate your rats, take them off the pine for a while first!

Side note (rant):

Claiming that something is alright because "we have been doing it for years with no problem" isnt great evidence either (although it may be good enough reason for you to continue doing something yourself). In educational teaching labs 25-40 years ago we used alot of carcinogenic compounds without gloves, or fume hoods with no "ill effects". Years later it was determined that alot of these compound have a very high cancer risk associated with them. I know this example doesnt really relate to this example, but i think it illustrates the point. Not all ill effects are visual.

Hope i didnt piss to many of you off with my ranting, but i felt it needed to be done .