Ok, I need to re-do my rat setup, need advice

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Used to use this for breeding and birthing housing 2 female/tub and having the male rotating between the tubs



Now I use it for breeding purposes only housing 1.4 in each tubs, and I use this as maternity rack (housing 1 pregnant female / tub)



Not seen on those pics but my racks have watering system now.

[Peter Williams]

Ralph Davis uses bleach too

I like to think I've seen all Ralphs videos at least 10 times each, but can you point me to the video where he says he uses bleach?

[smilin-buddha]

Used to use this for breeding and birthing housing 2 female/tub and having the male rotating between the tubs



Now I use it for breeding purposes only housing 1.4 in each tubs, and I use this as maternity rack (housing 1 pregnant female / tub)



Not seen on those pics but my racks have watering system now.

When you doing a pdf on that birthing rack hint hint

[dacalio]

David, it's been my observation that placing 3 males in with any number of females is more likely to cause fights and death. All of my males are known to each other and get along. However when removing a male from females, he is given a night to himself to work that breeding frenzy out before he returns to the other males to prevent fighting by him having the smell of females on him.

What could possibly be happening in your tubs is a free for all donkey kong style, and the female is being bombarded by males trying to get the goods. While she is in heat, she will have several males attempt to breed with her all at once. However, usually in the wild, females have their own hide to retreat to, and can choose when to be present, in a tub she does not have that option.

This is a pretty stressful environment and is usually only present when colony population is nearing the maximum capacity and pretty much ready to explode.

When populations are low to moderate, the males will watch over a group of females, and will fight with other males to the death if they have to, to protect the females and young.

I keep my males separate when breeding, just to avoid the problems, eventually you will have a fight and a very badly injured or dead male.

Ralph's method is different and I think a lot safer. I like to switch up males and females when I think about it. It's not on my top priority, but it does give the males a bunch of new females to get excited about and more likely to impregnate.

Females aren't usually so picky that they will always refuse a particular male. If they are so inclined to refuse a male for a few weeks, it's always good to give them a boost by switching it up.

Some males just cant get it done, and sometimes, there are other reasons for lack of pregnancies like health conditions.

You say all this with such certainty but I doubt you have tried exactly what I do. Th male groups that I set up are never seperated. I think that's why you may have experienced fighting. As I stated earlier the males must grow up together in order for this to work. I have tried to introduce a sibling to the males back into the breeding groups and major fighting occurred. Even though the other males knew him he was "out of the loop" and all three ganged up on him. I currently have 6 groups set up with these "triads" and have had no problems fighting. I have sucessfully used this method on and off for about 10 years.

My speed of conception is increased dramatically with this method. If I use one male it may be a month before all of the females in a group become pregnant. With this triad method births are spaced a week apart for every female.

You are probably right about the females not being the picky ones. The males inability or incompetance whatever it may be is probably the reason female rats may take a long time to become pregnant. If the females are as receptive to breeding as you say they are I don't see how this "free for all" is as bad as you think it is. My females are not abused any more in this setup versus a lone male. All male rats are somewhat aggressive breeders. None of my females sustained any injuries with this method. As far as this being stressfull I just don't see that. You must remember the males have more than one female to breed with. All the females in a given tub are on nearly the same cycle since they were pulled from their birthing tubs at the same time (I will probably get flamed for not resting females too, lol). Even if one female was in the tub, which I have done, and all three males were trying to breed her I don't see the problem. I put her in the tub to be bred and she is not being abused, so what's the problem?

I think its amusing that people are so quick to believe everything they read. I am constantly testing everything that is commonly accepted. I have introduced new female ASFs to established breeding groups. I have successfully kept a breeding group of 2.7 ASFs. I guess all I'm saying is don't believe everything you read and don't be afraid to experiment.

David

[Stewart_Reptiles]

When you doing a pdf on that birthing rack hint hint

I know I need to work on it don't I?

[littleindiangirl]

You say all this with such certainty but I doubt you have tried exactly what I do. Th male groups that I set up are never seperated. I think that's why you may have experienced fighting. As I stated earlier the males must grow up together in order for this to work. I have tried to introduce a sibling to the males back into the breeding groups and major fighting occurred. Even though the other males knew him he was "out of the loop" and all three ganged up on him. I currently have 6 groups set up with these "triads" and have had no problems fighting. I have sucessfully used this method on and off for about 10 years.

My speed of conception is increased dramatically with this method. If I use one male it may be a month before all of the females in a group become pregnant. With this triad method births are spaced a week apart for every female.

You are probably right about the females not being the picky ones. The males inability or incompetance whatever it may be is probably the reason female rats may take a long time to become pregnant. If the females are as receptive to breeding as you say they are I don't see how this "free for all" is as bad as you think it is. My females are not abused any more in this setup versus a lone male. All male rats are somewhat aggressive breeders. None of my females sustained any injuries with this method. As far as this being stressfull I just don't see that. You must remember the males have more than one female to breed with. All the females in a given tub are on nearly the same cycle since they were pulled from their birthing tubs at the same time (I will probably get flamed for not resting females too, lol). Even if one female was in the tub, which I have done, and all three males were trying to breed her I don't see the problem. I put her in the tub to be bred and she is not being abused, so what's the problem?

I think its amusing that people are so quick to believe everything they read. I am constantly testing everything that is commonly accepted. I have introduced new female ASFs to established breeding groups. I have successfully kept a breeding group of 2.7 ASFs. I guess all I'm saying is don't believe everything you read and don't be afraid to experiment.

David

David all I said with certainty is the observation of my males.

Everything I have paraphrased was my attempt to understand what is happening in your tubs to be successful, I was not in any way telling you it doesn't work, but rather trying to apply what I have read in scientific articles to your current set up.

But yes, I do believe some day you'll have a fight and injuries, but its my personal belief. I'm glad your system is working out for you.

[dacalio]

David all I said with certainty is the observation of my males.

Everything I have paraphrased was my attempt to understand what is happening in your tubs to be successful, I was not in any way telling you it doesn't work, but rather trying to apply what I have read in scientific articles to your current set up.

But yes, I do believe some day you'll have a fight and injuries, but its my personal belief. I'm glad your system is working out for you.

You have now stated twice (with certainty) that I will have fights in the future. Maybe in another decade this will come true.

What I'm saying is please don't assume what will happen when you have not tried it yourself. You may have tried something similar but from what you posted you have not attempted what I spelled out. I need not elaborate on my experiences any further since it has already been posted.

I think the males benefit from each other. They form strong bonds and groom each other. They sleep together and keep each other warm on cold days. I have even had a female drop a litter with the three males and have had no ill effects. I feel the males are so accustomed to one another they have no reason to fight. Think about it, if they were always housed together that's all they know.

Obviously I prefer this method. To each their own. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

David

[littleindiangirl]

You have now stated twice (with certainty) that I will have fights in the future. Maybe in another decade this will come true.

And I have stated (twice now) that I certainly believe it will happen someday. I can certainly believe whatever I want, and I would also like to point out, congrats! If never, then awesome, we have all learned something new!

[dacalio]

You certainly can!

I love threads like these. Don't take this the wrong way but I enjoy ummm ?debating? things like this.

David

[littleindiangirl]

You certainly can!

I love threads like these. Don't take this the wrong way but I enjoy ummm ?debating? things like this.

David

I love debate too! Who doesn't?