Questions on lighting and placement - I really need help.

[Mindibun]

I have a newbie question and a more advanced question. And maybe a few in between.

I have never had to set up lighting for a lizard before, but I do know the basics. I know about UVA and UVB and why they are important and what they do. I know there are heat lamps and light lamps and all different colors and styles. But I'm having a slightly unusual problem.

The lizard that I am purchasing is relatively new to captivity, so people cannot agree on whether they are nocturnal or diurnal. Because of this, they cannot decide whether the lizards should have access to UVB light or not. So, I went to my university and looked in the scientific journals. I was able to find an article that explained how, when kept without a UVB light, the lizards did ok for a while and then became ill. The researchers installed a UVB light and the lizards became well again. Personally, I put more faith in scholarly journals than internet care sheets, so I bought a UVB bulb just in case. I have a clamp lamp for it, but how do I set it up on a screen top? Can I just set the bulb on the screen or will it melt it? (That was the newbie question)

There is also a debate regarding heat. The lizards are native to Indonesia and New Guinea in the mountainous areas. The temperatures there are usually in the mid 70's. Because of this, people cannot decide whether to provide a heat lamp or not. I have read that when exposed to hotter temperatures, the lizards become lethargic, and seem to have difficulty breathing. Because of this, I have opted not to provide a heating lamp. Is this a wise decision? It has been suggested to just use belly heat, but these lizards also love the water, so half of the tank will be water. The other half will be an unusually thick layer of substrate for digging purposes. Therefore, I seriously doubt that belly heat will make any significant difference. What should I do? (That was the slightly more advanced question. )

In regards to the position of the tank, I had considered putting it near a window, thus providing him with indirect UVB light. Unfortunately, in order to do that I have to either keep it in my living room (which my roommates will hate) or on a flimsy bookcase in my bedroom.

I dunno, this whole lighting situation has me royally confused, and the fact that this lizard is relatively unknown isn't making things any easier. The lizard is a Red-eyed Crocodile Skink.

[dr del]

Hi,

Sadly I only have a little knowledge so please regard this as a stopgap post till the smarter people arrive.

Putting the tank near a window is not a good idea for a couple of reasons - the tank may overheat if it gets direct sunshine remarkably quickly. And the glass both in the tank and the window will more than likely filter out the uv anyway so it ends up being all risk with no benefit.

I would give uv and provide plenty of hiding spots where it can be gotten away from and let the lizard choose until you know for certain one way or another if it needs or wants it.

Making sure it can get away from it also might help protect its eyes as I seem to remember this can be a problem if nocturnal lizards are exposed to unrelenting uv light.

Can you strengthen the bookcase as water is remarkably heavy when used in large amounts?

Will this be a split base with a glass divider between the water and the land? I ask because those need filtration / (heating?) and a fair bit of planning as I'm sure you know to make sure the lizard can get in and out easily and safely without your entire substrate turning into mud.

Either way cleaning needs to be thought about from the very first step as it is a right pig to try and add later.

Belly heat does sound tricky but if the water is heated (does it need to be?) then ambients should be ok - could the heating come from a uth on either the back wall or a side wall with caves etc open on that side?

It depends on the style and wattage of the bulb I think on whether it can be placed on the mesh - I personally would leave at least an inch or two as a gap between bulb surface and mesh as long as that still allows the lizard to get close enough to get the benefit from the bulb if needed. (again that depends on the bulb and I don't know enough to be sure).

One more question - what do they eat? because water gets horrible very quickly once a few crickets commit suicide in it - and they seem determined to do so.

Have you read the Pillipe de vosjoli (sp) book (I think it's "the art of snake keeping" ) where he discusses naturalistic viviarium design? It might have some good info or ideas for you.

Do the people you are getting the lizard from have any info or tips - I take it you cannot find anyone on the net who has kept them long term? A breeder would be a godsend at this point really.

Hope some of this made sense - even if it covers a lot of the stuff you already know about.


dr del

[Mindibun]

Thank you so much, Dr. Del, your post was actually quite helpful. It also raised some new questions. Let's see if I can answer all of them...

1. The putting the tank near a window idea.
If it doesn't have to be near a window, then that solves a
lot of problems. That's good news at least. I hadn't
thought about the glass filtering out the light. Great point.

2. Making sure it can get away from light also might help protect its eyes.
I definitely thought of this and have purchased several
things to help there.

3. The water issue.
The water will be provided in a LARGE bowl of sorts
which will be buried down into the substrate to make it
more natural-looking. When soiled, it can simply be
pulled out and washed. I will probably put sponges in
the dish to provide a foothold.

4. The heating.
I forgot about being able to place the heating unit on
the back or side. That would probably work out
wonderfully, but I cannot have it on the same
thermostat as the snakes because it's more than 10*
temperature difference. I don't have the money for
another $120 thermostat atm. Any "ghetto"
suggestions?

5. Feeding.
Everyone says they eat crickets, but the journal that I
read about the light said that in the wild they eat
beetle larvae, and don't usually accept crickets.
Are beetle larvae available as feeders
in the pet trade? Is there something comparable?

I have read about the naturalistic vivs, but that's not the route I'm going to go. I don't like being unable to break everything down and clean it. The people at the reptile store know just about as much as I do. As for a breeder, no. It's practically impossible to find these animals captive bred. I'm hoping to be able to breed a few myself because of this. I only have journals, articles, and internet search engines to go off of.

[dr del]

Hi,

3) At that point I probably wouldn't bury it as that is what causes a fair few of the problems - substrate and food getting in etc - as long as it is shallow enough at the rim for the lizard to climb in wouldn't that be enough? They make some natural rock like bowls that should look ok while set like that.

Good idea on the sponge but I found twigs, rocks or plastic mesh was easier to clean while still being easy to climb out with etc.

4) You could try a dimmer between the lizard tanks UTH and the thermostat fed plug - you would need to fiddle with it a bit initially though. Or you could try the cheap-ass heatmats we get over here that are so weak they don't need thermostats at all - ultratherm is the brand name I think. They only ever raise the temps about 10f above ambient though in my experience so you would need to be sure that was enough all year round.

5) Not sure about this as the overall nutrition would need to be balanced out but how about silkworms, pheonix worms, waxworms, mealworms or even young roaches?

If you could get them eating the Dubia (sp) roaches they might be the best diet in terms of growing your own supply. I would ask in the non rodent feeders forum for ideas on those.

And I hope we will get plenty of pics once this is all set up.


dr del

[Mindibun]

I'm in the process of setting it up right now, so there will be photos very shortly. I took your advice on not using sponges, so there is moss in the bottom of the "pool" and a log to climb in/out. There is a foam insert in the tank (one of the decorative ones) and I simply used scissors to cut out a chunk for the bowl to fit in. It worked out nicely.

I'll look into the roaches. My boyfriend is going to kill me, though. He's terrified of roaches. I'll just call them "crickets" around him. I figured I'd be buying a variety of worms but I was hoping that I could get the actual beetle larvae.


The heating pad you mentioned sounds absolutely perfect for me. I keep my apartment at about 74* year-round, and since the lizards like it cool anyway, I wouldn't even need 10 more degrees. In fact, I may be ok without anything at all, though *ideally* the temps should be about 76-78. Do you think that little difference in temperature will make a big difference in health?

[littleindiangirl]

I would just say maybe rethink sponges... Harbors for bacteria mold, mildew and fungi. Especially floating in a water bowl all the time.

[Kara]

IIRC, there was a well-written article about these lizards in Reptiles Magazine in the late 90's. Not sure how relevant the information may still be, but if you'd like I can try to dig out my copy.

K~

[Mindibun]

Ok, well I finally got everything put together. I think I'll be ok without a heat source. The accurite is reading 75-77* which is just about perfect. I filled the "pool" with water and the humidity is now at 60%. I haven't even misted yet, so I think the humidity will be spot on when the little lizard gets here.

The wood pieces are cork - that's their natural hiding places in the wild so I made sure to get exactly that. The pool, which you can see in the back, is fairly deep. The lizard will be able to completely submerge if it wants to. It goes almost all the way down to the bottom (so it's about as deep as the fake foamy front piece.)

It's a ten gal, but the lizards stay pretty tiny so a 10g is decent for a pair of them.



and a top view:

[Beardedragon]

Sorry if you mentioned it, but what type of uvb did you buy? Brand I mean?

[Mindibun]

I don't remember the brand. It's actually a light marketed towards birds to keep the feathers of exotic parrots looking healthy. It's normally a $40 bulb, but I got it for $10 from work. (An exotic bird store).