Feeding Issues for 3 months

[blackcrystal22]

Alright, so I have a year old Het. Caramel Albino Ball Python. He is in a 20g long tank. The Temperature and Humidity is regulated, and I have checked it a thousand times.
I recently got him. He was shipped by a well acknowledged breeder who've I kept in touch with about this subject since. I received him at the beginning of April.
According to the breeders records, the last time he ate at ALL was before he was shipped on March 23, 2008. I have been unsuccessful at feeding him since I've received him. I've looked up everything I could to try to get him to eat. He was eating fuzzy live rats at the breeder which I have been unable to receive as of now. Heres the list of things I have tried to get him to eat. (He is capable of eating an adult mouse easily.)

-F/t hopper mouse.
-F/t adult mouse.
-Live fuzzy mouse.
-Live adult mouse.
-F/t small rat.
-Brained f/t small rat.
-Live pinkie mouse.

Those are all the things I've attempted to feed him. I've tried these various things as well.

-Raised Temp. and Humidity.
-Overnight Bag (left him in a paper bag with a dead mouse overnight)
-Feeding in Cage
-Feeding in Outside Container (large and small)
-Feeding with Tongs
-Feeding with Hand
-Assisted Feeding
-Left him alone for two weeks and tried again.
-Encouraging food at front of shelter/hide.

The ONLY feeding response I've gotten out of him was confusing. I was dangling a live mouse by hand in front of him (4in or so) and he struck at the mouse but did not grab and pull back. It was like he bit the mouse out of fear almost.

He just shed normally the other day and drinks often. He doesn't look emaciated on is side (dented region along his side) but his backbone is a bit more prominent than I would like.

I can show pictures of anything. I just need more suggestions, anything will help. If he doesn't eat within this month I may have to consult a veterinarian and/or try to force feed. Neither of which I really want to do. Thanks.

[nevohraalnavnoj]

Hi Jess, you did a good job of describing everything in your post. I hear your pain about not having access to life pinky/pup rats.

One thing that's important to know: What was his weight when you got him and what is his weight now? As long as he's not losing weight too rapidly everything should be alright.

Feeding a small live mouse may be the best bet.

Have you tried covering 3 of the four sides of the aquarium and filling it with lots of stuff so that he feels really cramped and secure?

The strike you describe does sound like a defensive strike. I have one that does that when I offer FT, she's like "get it outta my face!"

JonV

Alright, so I have a year old Het. Caramel Albino Ball Python. He is in a 20g long tank. The Temperature and Humidity is regulated, and I have checked it a thousand times.
I recently got him. He was shipped by a well acknowledged breeder who've I kept in touch with about this subject since. I received him at the beginning of April.
According to the breeders records, the last time he ate at ALL was before he was shipped on March 23, 2008. I have been unsuccessful at feeding him since I've received him. I've looked up everything I could to try to get him to eat. He was eating fuzzy live rats at the breeder which I have been unable to receive as of now. Heres the list of things I have tried to get him to eat. (He is capable of eating an adult mouse easily.)

-F/t hopper mouse.
-F/t adult mouse.
-Live fuzzy mouse.
-Live adult mouse.
-F/t small rat.
-Brained f/t small rat.
-Live pinkie mouse.

Those are all the things I've attempted to feed him. I've tried these various things as well.

-Raised Temp. and Humidity.
-Overnight Bag (left him in a paper bag with a dead mouse overnight)
-Feeding in Cage
-Feeding in Outside Container (large and small)
-Feeding with Tongs
-Feeding with Hand
-Assisted Feeding
-Left him alone for two weeks and tried again.
-Encouraging food at front of shelter/hide.

The ONLY feeding response I've gotten out of him was confusing. I was dangling a live mouse by hand in front of him (4in or so) and he struck at the mouse but did not grab and pull back. It was like he bit the mouse out of fear almost.

He just shed normally the other day and drinks often. He doesn't look emaciated on is side (dented region along his side) but his backbone is a bit more prominent than I would like.

I can show pictures of anything. I just need more suggestions, anything will help. If he doesn't eat within this month I may have to consult a veterinarian and/or try to force feed. Neither of which I really want to do. Thanks.

[blackcrystal22]

Hi Jess, you did a good job of describing everything in your post. I hear your pain about not having access to life pinky/pup rats.

One thing that's important to know: What was his weight when you got him and what is his weight now? As long as he's not losing weight too rapidly everything should be alright.

Feeding a small live mouse may be the best bet.

Have you tried covering 3 of the four sides of the aquarium and filling it with lots of stuff so that he feels really cramped and secure?

The strike you describe does sound like a defensive strike. I have one that does that when I offer FT, she's like "get it outta my face!"

JonV

Well, his weight as of his last shed (yesterday) is 199.6 grams.
The breeder weighed him on 2/10/08 which was his previous shed. He weighed about 194.5 grams. If he had gained weight since his last feed and lost it, we can't really tell. But he hasn't gained very much weight over the past 4 months when he gained 38.2g between 12/15/07 and 2/10/08.

His cage is virtually packed. I have a large corner water bowl, two large plants, a corner resting/den area, a main den, and a jungle driftwood climbing set. I would say 4/5 of his cage is filled up.

[nevohraalnavnoj]

Can anyone else chime in with some suggestions?

Are you feeding at night time?

What are the hot/cool temps and what is the overall ambient humidity?

Are you using any type of external lighting-this could be causing stress.

What are you using for your heat source?

JonV

[greghall]

HE IS PROPLEY FEELING UNSECURE IN THE 20L MOST ALL BREEDERS USE RACKS & TUBS , MINE DID THE OPPOSITE ATE WELL & THEN STOPPED IM FIGURING THEM OUT NOW iI WOULD ALWAYS TRY LIVE SMALLER ENCLOSER SMALL SUCURE HIDES.

[kc261]

As best as you can tell, he has neither gained nor lost weight in any significant amount, is that true? If so, that is good. Well, gaining weight would be better for a still young snake, but gosh, he hasn't been eating, so you can't really expect it. The important thing is he hasn't lost weight.

As Greg said, he is probably feeling insecure. Are the sides of his tank covered with a dark material? If not, cover at least 3 of the sides.

You say 4/5 of his tank is full. To you that might seem crowded, but to a young BP that might seem like a lot of empty space. Try putting balls of loosely crumpled newspaper anywhere in the tank that you can fit them.

Also, you've gone through quite a lot of things in a relatively short period of time. You might have more luck with establishing a feeding routine, and sticking with it regardless of whether or not he eats. It would be best to stick with what he was being fed and eating successfully before, but if that isn't an option, then live mice are probably your next best bet.

[starmom]

Did he take the food when you assist fed? It seems like you've tried a whole bunch of things in a very short period of time which can be really stressful.
I'd put him into a small tub and leave him be for a week or two and try with an appropriately sized live prey.
I'm having an issue with one of mine right now. Maybe you could check out my thread http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=68971 for Becky's suggestions; they seem to have applicability in your circumstance as well

[blackcrystal22]

As best as you can tell, he has neither gained nor lost weight in any significant amount, is that true? If so, that is good. Well, gaining weight would be better for a still young snake, but gosh, he hasn't been eating, so you can't really expect it. The important thing is he hasn't lost weight.

As Greg said, he is probably feeling insecure. Are the sides of his tank covered with a dark material? If not, cover at least 3 of the sides.

You say 4/5 of his tank is full. To you that might seem crowded, but to a young BP that might seem like a lot of empty space. Try putting balls of loosely crumpled newspaper anywhere in the tank that you can fit them.

Also, you've gone through quite a lot of things in a relatively short period of time. You might have more luck with establishing a feeding routine, and sticking with it regardless of whether or not he eats. It would be best to stick with what he was being fed and eating successfully before, but if that isn't an option, then live mice are probably your next best bet.

I'll try covering the sides of the tank and the newspaper idea.
It seems like I've done a lot of things, but a lot of them were tried at the same time. Like the f/t small rat showed no response and so I brained it, still no response.
I'm pretty sure he is stressed, that is pretty easy to tell. How to calm him down enough for him to eat is what I'm aiming for.

Also, for the heating source I have a 75 watt wide range lamp that sits on the screen top of the cage. I dim it down at night and it cools down. Humidity has always been between 50-60 percentile range. What other heat sources would you suggest?
I've had a lot of problems with heating mats.

Another thing I didn't mention is that for a fasting snake, he's pretty active. Right now hes actually roaming his cage. He recently escaped but we found him the next day. (my fault) I think its a bit strange that he has so much energy for not eating.

[Mindibun]

Usually roaming (and escaping) is the animal looking for a way out, and into a "nicer" home. For ball pythons, this usually means a more cramped space. I would use some type of aspen or carefresh bedding in the bottom of his cage to give him the option of burrowing. In addition, cover the sides like suggested (heck, why not cover all four for now?) and stuff newspaper all over.

I think everyone is right that he is stressed and insecure. Make those changes to the tank/tub/whatever, and leave him be for at least a week. (2 weeks is probably better). I would try to find another heating source - one that doesn't give off light. I'm sure he is craving a small, dark, space. Not a zombie mouse dancing in his face.

Also, has he defecated at all in the time that you've had him? If not, perhaps his system is "backed up" ? That would warrant a trip to the vet.

[SatanicIntention]

So he has light 24/7... Is in a huge tank without proper temperatures.

Get a 6-15qt tub w/lid, get an undertank heater(preferably a piece of 4" or 11" flexwatt) and a thermostat(or rheostat from Home Depot or Lowe's, NOT a pet store piece of junk). Also get a good digital thermometer/hygrometer combo unit($12 at WalMart too).

You will then need a 4" clay or plastic planter saucer(sits underneath pot to catch water). Get a small water bowl, such as a creme brulee cup(2-3" diameter). WalMart has both.

Get either a hobby soldering iron to use for poking a few holes in the tub or use a hot nail held with pliers(hold over your stove and poke a few holes, reheat, poke holes, etc etc).

Stick the UTH under half of the tub, get it all regulated with the thermostat, add newspaper(1-2 layers) in bottom, add hide and bowl, and you're set. Add snake and secure the lid with 1-2 of those small bungee cords.

Leave the snake alone for a good week, in a dark room with NO activity. After that week is up, pre-scent the room by placing a live adult mouse in a cage next to the snake's tub for 30 minutes or so. Make sure the room is dim or dark, and don't remove or bother the snake at all. Drop the mouse on the opposite end of the tub as the snake is and close the lid. Leave the room and come back in 20-30 minutes. If the snake doesn't eat, remove the mouse and try again in a week. No handling except absolutely necessary.

So all in all, put the snake in a proper enclosure for a baby his size, get temps regulated, and get him eating on a weekly basis.