Axanthic

[soy.lor.n]

i was reading more about axanthic, and came across a few websites that said the three diffrent lines of proven axanthic (vpi, tks, and jolliff) are not compatable with each other.

i wasn't sure what this ment, if I had a 100% het vpi and a 100% het tks... and bred them, wouldn't that produce an axanthic?

It depends on the genetics of it. The different traits could exist on different genes (that still have a similar effect) or they could be different alleles for the same gene (kind of like green or blue eyes, both of which are considered recessive in humans) and either way, breeding the two together would not result in an axanthic as you might expect, although if they're different alleles of the same gene, then it would probably produce a 3rd cool effect, and that doesn't sound like what's happening. For example (assuming different genes), if v=vpi, t=tks, N=normal....the genetic code could look something like this
TKS female: NNNtNNN-NNNtNNN
VPI male: NNvNNNN-NNvNNNN
(note: all the extra Ns are just filler...I didn't bother looking up how many genes are on each chromosome or anything- and it could even be that the different variants aren't on the same chromosome at all...just assume that the other Ns are coding for spider, pastel, length, etc...)
If you crossed them, because they are both homozygous for the recessive trait, you would get all double het babies:
NNvNNNN-NNNtNNN
So then if crossed with a het for either VPI or TKS, then you would again have a 1 in 4 chance of getting the respective trait to show up, 1 would be a double het, and one would be het for each trait (so the 3 normal offspring would each be 66% het for either trait, and 33% double het)
NNvNNNN-NNNtNNN (double het)
x
NNvNNNN-NNNNNNN (het for VPI)
=
NNvNNNN-NNvNNNN (VPI)
&
NNvNNNN-NNNNNNN (het for VPI)
&
NNNtNNN-NNNvNNN (double het)
&
NNNtNNN-NNNNNNN (het for TKS)

(If you bred the double het with a full VPI, you would get 2 VPIs and all the normal looking ones would be double hets)

wow long post, and I doubt I made anything clearer....That's why I don't want to be a teacher, lol

I assume that they don't know how exactly the genes do look, since there's all this debate about it, heh, but if anyone knows, I'd be curious

Also if anyone was wondering....the different alleles would look like this:
NNNtNNN-NNNtNNN (TKS)
x
NNNvNNN-NNNvNNN (VPI)
=
NNNtNNN-NNNvNNN (all double hets)
So the double het probably wouldn't look normal since he's got a t-v for the 4th gene, and has no N gene. So that's probably not the answer

AND finally I should mention that it's always possible that there's more than 1 gene encoding for the trait which would make it more complicated. Although I think if they're all on the same chromosome it should still work out...

[Gloryhound]

Yes, only if both het axanthics are from the same compatible line. I have NOT heard that any of the major lines were compatible. If someone is making that claim I'd want to see proof that one of the animals was not actually a double het.

The current accepted major lines of axanthics are

VPI - recessive
TSK - recessive
Jollif - recessive
Red Axanthic - Co-Dominant

And as far as I know, none of them have been proven to be compatible with each other.

I don't know much about the NERD axanthics so can't say anything about them.

Mark

Actually I did a little more research and per Designer Morphs by John Berry 5 lines of recessive Axanthic exist. All of which origionated from different WC or CH ball pythons.

1. VPI
2. TSK
3. Jolliff
4. Nerd
5. D&M

Also as of the writing of the book TSK and D&M were proven to be compatable.

[Kalitta]

Ok, so I want a snake that is going to maintain it's coloration throughout it's life. I'm willing to put in the time to raise and breed Het's. and going through reputable dealers I could get a male and a female of the same line that are not siblings.

Now, what would the sibling that are not visible axanthic? 66% possible het axanthic?

[Monty]

pastel axanthic it will stay silver and black

[Monty]

better yet super pastel axanthic

[Kalitta]

so how do you create one of those? breed a pastel to an axanthic?

[Monty]

breed a pastel to an axanthic then breed the pastel het axanthics back to the parent

[Kalitta]

breed it back to the axanthic parent? or the pastel parent?

[Gloryhound]

breed it back to the axanthic parent? or the pastel parent?

The Axanthic parent.

Also the VPI line is probably the cleanest and the one that fades the least as just an Axanthic.

[Monty]

sorry i didnt realize that i didnt finish my statement til just now you would breed one of the pastel hets back to the axanthic parent if u went and bred back to the pastel parent you would get super pastel 50% pos het for axanthic i know they have a picture of one on oe ralph davis's website
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...astel_nerd.asp

hope its ok i use his link