Normal X Pastel

[Brimstone111888]

Your arguement is that a visual pastel is a Het Pastel.

That is what I am saying.

That to me is erroneous for this reason.

I said most people don't use the term het with pastel, since it is obvious. BUT the snake still is a heterozygous pastel

How can you be Het for being visual considering it is a co-dom morph?

You keep making the same error. Heterozygous does not mean recessive. Heterozygous means having 1 allele of a gene, which is exactly what a pastel is.

The whole definition of co-dom is that there are normals and there are Pastels. Black and White, no grey in the middle.

No the whole definition of Co-dominant means the gene is expressed in the phenotype(physical appearance). Co-dominant genes also only require 1 allele to appear in the phenotype, where as recessive genes require 2 alleles.

Why use that definition when it is SO misleading?

Because that is genetics....The Ball Python industry has streamlined genetics and in turn caused misconceptions.

I can understand where the arguement for a Pastel being het for SUPER pastel, but a normal pastel being het Pastel is not really semantically correct to me....

Pastel is the heterozygous form of a Super Pastel, which makes the Pastel heterozygous. Semantically correct or not, that is genetics.

[LadyOhh]

Absolutely not.

So are you saying that the Het Ivory is an incorrect definition because it is a Yellowbelly?

Your arguement is stating that then the definition of the animal should be Het Yellowbelly....

Same goes with all co-doms???

Pastel is the heterozygous form of a Super Pastel, which makes the Pastel heterozygous. Semantically correct or not, that is genetics.

I don't disagree with this statement. I disagree with the phrasing of the term.

I am aware of genetics. I have my degree. Don't patronize me. I don't appreciate it.

[Brimstone111888]

Absolutely not.

So are you saying that the Het Ivory is an incorrect definition because it is a Yellowbelly?

Your arguement is stating that then the definition of the animal should be Het Yellowbelly....

I am aware of genetics. I have my degree. Don't patronize me. I don't appreciate it.

A heterozygous yellowbelly is not a yellowbelly?

Also they have these names cause Ball python people have named them not geneticists.

Sorry you feel patronized, but I'm trying to help you understand the genetic view of it.

For the sake of the discussion bringing up degrees isn't relavent unless it is in snake genetics.

[LadyOhh]

A heterozygous yellowbelly is not a yellowbelly?

A het ivory is a yellowbelly, so the super form is the Ivory. Thus the name. What do you call the normals then?

Also they have these names cause people Ball python people have named them not geneticists.

That is true. How many people playing with Ball Pythons are??? I admit I am not. I just work in a lab.

Sorry you feel patronized, but I'm trying to help you understand the genetic view of it.

For the sake of the discussion bringing up degrees isn't relavent unless it is in snake genetics.

Really? I feel it does. I have my Bachelors in Biology, and took several classes in Genetics. What is your background in this?
What you're saying makes sense in a way, but I am concerned about the PHRASING as it pertains to the animal, and how it tends to confuse those that do not fully understand.

[LadyOhh]

heterozygous:
a genotype consisting of two different alleles of a gene for a particular trait (Aa). Individuals who are heterozygous for a trait are referred to as heterozygotes.

If A is pastel, then it is a visual expression of Pastel, but the homozygous form being Super (AA) so therefore Het for Super Pastel...

I can't see how you can use that arguement to argue that there is a Het pastel.

[Brimstone111888]

A het ivory is a yellowbelly, so the super form is the Ivory. Thus the name. What do you call the normals then?



That is true. How many people playing with Ball Pythons are??? I admit I am not. I just work in a lab.




Really? I feel it does. I have my Bachelors in Biology, and took several classes in Genetics. What is your background in this?
What you're saying makes sense in a way, but I am concerned about the PHRASING as it pertains to the animal, and how it tends to confuse those that do not fully understand.

Het Ivory = Yellowbelly

Heterozygous Yellowbelly = Yellowbelly = Het Ivory

Its all the same thing just semantically incorrect. I call them yellowbellys because thats what the first person who produced them calls them.

I personally havn't met or heard of one geneticists that breeds ball pythons.

I may not have a degree, but have taken more than my share of science and Biology classes. Through high school and college I have taken 8 Biology related classes, which all undoubtedly deals with genetics.

I agree genetics is confusing and when have I ever said to a new person thats a het pastel or event tried explaining it to a new person? I havn't. When I see people mocking others for their own incorrect information is when I try to educate some people on the basic terms of genetics, which is all this discussion is.

Not saying you mock, but others do.

[LadyOhh]

I agree genetics is confusing and when have I ever said to a new person thats a het pastel or event tried explaining it to a new person? I havn't. When I see people mocking others for their own incorrect information is when I try to educate some people on the basic terms of genetics, which is all this discussion is.

Not saying you mock, but others do.

Okay, I am going to say that I HAVE seen people get scammed by the "Het Pastels" (aka Normals). I have also had to explain it to them.
Which is why it is so important to me that this wording, and the semantics behind them is clarified so that people are again NOT mislead.

I understand you are not trying to be difficult, and I also understand that you ARE educated in genetics. Problem is, I think personally that you are explaining it in a way that can mislead many people into thinking that there is such thing as a normal het pastel just way the phrase used!

I HATE seeing people scammed, which is why I wanted to clarify the issue to forgo any possible confusion. Problem is, if they read thru this, I doubt the confusion will pass...

[Brimstone111888]

Heterozygous:
A genotype consisting of two different alleles of a gene for a particular trait (Aa). Individuals who are heterozygous for a trait are referred to as heterozygotes.

Using Pastel as an example, in a normal ball python the genes should look like

nnpp

nn= normal
pp= the normal gene that would be in place of the pastel gene

A pastel would look like this

nnPp

nn= normal
Pp= Pastel

As you can see in these genes Pp that it is heterozygous. Making a visual pastel, but it is heterozygous.

A super pastel would look like this

nnPP

nn= normal
PP= super pastel

This makes a homozygous form.

[Brimstone111888]

Okay, I am going to say that I HAVE seen people get scammed by the "Het Pastels" (aka Normals). I have also had to explain it to them.
Which is why it is so important to me that this wording, and the semantics behind them is clarified so that people are again NOT mislead.

I understand you are not trying to be difficult, and I also understand that you ARE educated in genetics. Problem is, I think personally that you are explaining it in a way that can mislead many people into thinking that there is such thing as a normal het pastel just way the phrase used!

I HATE seeing people scammed, which is why I wanted to clarify the issue to forgo any possible confusion. Problem is, if they read thru this, I doubt the confusion will pass...

I am no teacher and I am not the best at explaining things, but hopefully I have gotten what I wanted to say accross, if not I'm sure people like Randy and others will maybe put it into better words than I can.

[LadyOhh]

Heterozygous:
A genotype consisting of two different alleles of a gene for a particular trait (Aa). Individuals who are heterozygous for a trait are referred to as heterozygotes.

Using Pastel as an example, in a normal ball python the genes should look like

nnpp

nn= normal
pp= the normal gene that would be in place of the pastel gene

A pastel would look like this

nnPp

nn= normal
Pp= Pastel

As you can see in these genes Pp that it is heterozygous. Making a visual pastel, but it is heterozygous.

A super pastel would look like this

nnPP

nn= normal
PP= super pastel

This makes a homozygous form.

Okay, lets do this one more time.

Yes, I see your punnet square.

Yes, I understand that a Pastel is a Het form.

But it is a Het form visually. To refer to it as HET Pastel is to imply to the general public that it is normal. Generally speaking, that is the reasoning behind the LACK of using this term, for obvious reasons.

Why not just call it a Pastel. Really.........