Etiquette of the buy

[NightLad]

Hi everyone!

The countdown is on for a reptile expo in my area. I can’t wait! Several reputable BP breeders are going to be in attendance, and with any luck, I’ll find that special ssssssomeone.

*** However, I do have a question regarding etiquette. When speaking to a breeder, how exactly does one enquire about the genetic history of a snake? More specially; how does one ask about the level of line-breeding/in-breeding in that snakes bloodline?

Would even asking about this be considered offensive to a breeder? Would they look at me strangely for even asking?

Maybe it is my mammalian sensibilities, but I’m just not too keen on the idea of having a snake that is its own cousin. I’ve read just about every thread on this topic here, as well as several excellent articles online, but even with the assurances of top-breeders I just can’t shake the uncomfortable feeling I have about it. I’m sure it’s just me.

(Ok, I understand that if I decide on just about any morph I’ll have to make peace with line/in-breeding somewhere in its lineage, but I’d like to keep it as minimal as possible.)

I sincerely hope this does not cause offense to anybody. I’m just trying to get all my Ps and Qs in order before I bring one of these lil’guys home for the next (hopefully) 30+ years.

(And yes, I’ve considered just ‘not asking’ but I’m afraid I have to touch the stove to know it’s hot.)

*** Also, are there any other questions one should ask regarding a potential buy to help them decide? I’d like to compile a list of questions I, as a noob, may not know to ask a breeder in person.

Thanks!

[JLC]

Hmmmmm....well, I'm not sure about the whole line-breeding or in-breeding thing. It's not a big deal to me. And it's not just a reptile thing, either. Lots of "mammilian" pets are line-bred. And think about this...in the wild...once an animal is weaned from its mother and reaches sexual maturity...family relations no longer have any meaning. At least, that is the case with many, many species. There may be some that are as sensitive to it as humans are. But for the most part...snakes in particular...whether wild or captive bred, care not how related they are to their mate. Maybe it would be best to go into that one thinking, "What I don't know can't hurt me."

As for questions that ~I~ would ask...

I would make sure I knew what type of prey and what method of feeding it was used to...as well as size and frequency.

I would ask if the breeder bred the animal him/herself or if they bought it from someone else.

I would ask about what kind of follow-on customer service they offer. Now, just about anyone you ask will tell you they'll "always be there for you." But often, you can get a feel for how genuine they are simply by asking and looking them in the eye when they answer.

I'd definitely ask about what kind of health guarantees they had and how they would handle a situation like a mis-sexed snake that was discovered after you'd gotten home or something.

That's about all I can think of right this moment....and I really should be in bed by now...I'm surprised I can still type at all!

[tigerlily]

I think Judy hit the most important questions to ask, but I just had to add one little thing. If you feel that they are blowing you off or you are just uncomfortable with them... walk away. You should feel justified in asking for a the background of a snake and they should be willing to talk to you and give you the information.

[Brimstone111888]

Most breeders from what I have seen are generally very nice and open people. They could probably talk snakes with you all day, so I'm sure they won't have any problem answering your questions.

Good luck on finding an awesome snake.

[RegiusCo]

Without getting into the inbreeding question, as a potential customer, any good breeder will be more then happy to discuss everything related to ball pythons before, during and after the show.

As a frequent vendor at the PCPC show, I can honestly tell you this show is always very busy, breeders don't always have the quality time necessary to discuss in depth with every customer at this particular show. You should get to know all the breeders prior to the show, establish somekind of relationship before showing up in front of their table.

Many good breeders lack customer service and this I believe should be your main criteria before deciding where to spend your hard earned coins.

A good breeder will always be there for you after sale, not the case with many of them there, you will have a good dozen breeders there of which 5 or 6 I would consider top notch.

how does one ask about the level of line-breeding/in-breeding in that snakes bloodline?

Good question, you should first ask witch lineage this and that particular morphs is from, they should all know that and if they don't, I'd walk away

Would even asking about this be considered offensive to a breeder? Would they look at me strangely for even asking?

Not at all, good breeders don't have anything to hide and If they go as far has looking at you strangely, again walk away

(And yes, I’ve considered just ‘not asking’ but I’m afraid I have to touch the stove to know it’s hot.)

You absolutely need to ask anything you want, most breeders are very passionate about their animals and just love to talk shop, don't be shy, ask away

As for other questions to ask, here are a few more;

- Is it feeding on rats, live or frozen thawed. Does he guarantee a good feeder ( this cannot be overlooked as too many start them off on mice )

- What substrate is the snake kept on

- What is the guarantee on this snake

- Did he produce the snake or from a thrid party

- Trick questions for the breeder, which other breeder would he recommend? Pay real attention to his anwser

- Any pics of the parents?

- Is there a number he can be reached for more info, an e-mail addy is not enough!

Also, don't rely strickly on reputation, can be reputable with lousy customer service...

Good luck

Marc

[NightLad]

Thank you very much for the pointers and suggestions everybody! I really appreciate the list of questions to keep in mind. I’ve printed the out, although I will commit them to memory before the expo.

Tomorrow I’ll be heading to a store the deals in reptile care equipment to buy a good setup and get everything ready. I’m so excited!

If anybody has any other ideas and suggestions (in addition to the already wonderful tips!) please feel free to mention them! You’ve all been really great.

[frankykeno]

Before you go to that store and have them happily dance their way through your wallet, spend some time here researching housing for ball pythons. A lot of things you might buy at a pet store can be purchased elsewhere for a considerable cost savings. A lot of what the store is likely to tell you is a "must have"...either isn't or is in fact a "should not have" (an example of this would be the heat rock a lot of pet stores still peddle).

I'd save yourself a lot of wasted cash and grief with spending some time researching here first.

[Alice]

These have all been great questions. I would add a few more questions/points:

1. Is the snake a wild caught (WC), captive hatched (CH) or captive bred (CB)? The answer might be obvious from answers to your other questions, but I would ask anyway.
2. Get lots of contact info from the vendor you buy from; phone numbers (cell, home, business if they'll give it), email address, web site, etc. You never know what might come up after the show and when you need to contact them you realize you can't.
3. Get an invoice identifying what you bought and marked "paid" from the vendor you buy from. This will help with your record keeping and if you need to invoke any gurantee. I offer an invoice when I have a table at a show and you'd be amazed how many buyers do not want one.
4. Have the vendor sex the snake in front of you before you buy. Even if you do not plan to breed, it is useful information.
5. Walk the whole show and look at all the vendor tables before you make your decision.
6. Look at the vendor's setup at the show. Is it clean? Do they have business cards prominently displayed? Are the people behind the table helpful? Do the reptiles available look well cared for?
7. If you buy with a credit card, watch where and how your card info is used/written down. Many vendors do not have the capablity to swipe a card at a show so they have to call it in and then write down the key info for later "batching" to the credit card company. I would want to make sure that my info was secure, out of sight behind the table.
8. Look up the web site for the show; many times they will have the vendors that will be at the show listed. Do a few BOI searches on ones that look interesting. Many times the show's website will have links to each vendors website - another good source of info. You also need to understand that the shows do not usually ban a vendor even if he has a very poor rep.

I hope these help. As a vednor, I would never be affended if someone asked questions - in fact I'd be thrilled that they had done their homework and I'd be less apprehensive about the future of my babies!

Good luck and make sure you post pics of what you buy!

[frankykeno]

Excellent advice Alice, both from a vendor's point of view and a buyer as well.