RI not responsive to AB's

[KJE]

I took my 1 year old BP to the vet on 8-20-07 because I heard some slight popping when he breathed. The vet opened his mouth and saw a little bit of mucus. He said it was the very beginning stages of a RI and put him on 5 treatments of Amikacin injections.

During the time of being on that AB he seemed to be getting worse instead of better. He ended up yawning all the time and had bubbles coming from his mouth and is nose. He also started to open his mouth a little bit to take a breath.

I called the vet on 8-31-07, which was 1 day before his last injection of Amikacin. The vet said we could try a different AB to see if that would work.

The new AB is Ceftazidime. He received the final injection of the Amikacin and one injection of Ceftazidime on 9-1-07 per the vets orders.

He refused food for the first time on 9-1-07. I know they can fast, so I tried not to freak out about that too much.

Today, 9-3-07, I took him out to get a look at him and he still bubbles, popping, and is rubbing mucus all over the place. Some of the mucus looks kind of like buggers that we get. Sorry if that's too graffic, but that's the only way I know how to describe it.

The temp/humidity in his enclosure have been perfect. I have increased his warm side to about 91-92 and his cool side to about 81-82. They are normally 89-90 and 80.

The vet said that if this AB doesn't work then it's most likely a virus and there is nothing else they can do. The vet said he would want to do some blood work if he's still sick after this AB to confirm that it's a virus.

Has anyone else experienced this before? How common are RI's that end up being viral instead of bacterial?

Sorry about the long post. I just wanted to make sure you knew what all was going on.

[dr del]

Hi,


The only thing I can think of is what several people have suggested in the past which is asking the vet to do a culture to find out exactly which if any anti-biotics would be effective.

I don't recognize the names of the ones he used but, as I have zero vetinary or medical training that isn't really surprising. Maybe people who have heard of them can chime in. I know the one used most commonly over here is baytril.

Does your vet have any experience of reptiles?


dr del

[Adam_Wysocki]

Ask your vet why he/she doesn't want to use enroflaxin and why he/she chose not to perform a culture.

It is extremely uncommon for a URI to be viral. Bump your temps up (I'd go 86-88 on the cool side, and 95 on the warm while treating the RI) and find a vet that will do a culture to determine how best to fight the infection.

Hope this helps.

-adam

[West Coast Jungle]

Bayatril and pipracil are 2 antibiotics that i have used for RI's and have been very effective. Unfortunately since you have started to use AB's a culture may not show the particular bacteria causing the infection but it is still worth a try. RI's can be fatal and I would recommend trying another Vet which is more familiar with reptile infections. Considering they didn't even try a culture makes me think they are not very familiar with reptile diseases or AB's. Without a culture you are literally guessing which AB wil kill the bacteria causing the RI. My vet ALWAYS does a culture to treat RI's. Snake lungs are very primitive and drowning from RI's is not uncommon if not treated. I would up the temps to 95 on hot and 84 on cool. Best of Luck!

[West Coast Jungle]

Go with Adams temp reccomendations, he has much more experience than me!

[Kara]

What dosage of Amikacin did your snake receive? And what is your current Ceftaz. dosage/frequency, out of curiosity?

Amikacin + Ceftazidime have proven to be a good combo, depending on the cause of the respiratory infection. To echo others in this thread, I'd like to know exactly what I'm fighting with such kick-butt drugs, since both of those are pretty heavy-duty.

Make sure your snake has access to clean, fresh water every single day. Bleach/disinfect your water bowl at least daily while your snake is sick to help reduce surfaces where any kind of funk can reproduce in your snake's enclosure.

Good luck!!!!!!

K~

[KJE]

Our vet is an Avian/exotic specialist who is suppose to be the best in the Cincinnati area. I will contact our local reptil rescue and see who they use.

I guess the vet chooses to put snakes on the heavy duty AB's because they kill pretty much anything. Then he doesn't have to charge for the culture. He didn't offer a culture and I don't think it would work at this point because my snake has been on AB's. I wish I would have known to ask for one at the time. This is our first time dealing with an illness. We had only had the snake for almost 3 weeks when he started showing symptoms.

I will bump up the temps to what was suggested.

My snake weighed 358g at the vets office. The dosage for the Amikacin was 2.5 mg and the dosage for the Ceftazidime is 8mg.

The reason the vet said it is most likely a virus if these AB's don't work is because they are very strong AB's and should kill pretty much any bacteria in the snake.

[KJE]

There was one question I failed to answer. The frequency of the AB's is one injection every 72 hours.

[SatanicIntention]

The dosage for Amiglyde is 2.5mg/kg, so she needs 0.9mg q72h. Just divide that out by the concentration of the medication, and you'll get your dosage.

OT, but I was looking at the enrofloxacin dosages and some sources say to give it every 24hours and some say to give it every 48hours. I've had luck with every 48 and it doesn't seem as hard on their system. My vet recommends every 48h as well.

Also, both of the medications you are using are very hard on the kidneys and cells(nephrotoxic and cytotoxic). Soaking the snake as well as giving additional subcutaneous fluids when you give the shots, will help prevent this. She needs alot of extra fluids to help flush the meds out of her system and to prevent her organs from failing.

[KJE]

He's had 3 injections of the new AB. The day after each injection he seems to be breathing easier, but by the 2nd day after he's back to having some trouble. Does anyone know why this would be happening?