Blue Dumbo

[frankykeno]

Okay my rattie experts just a quick question. I have a Blue Self male. I have an Agouti Dumbo Eared female. I want a Blue Dumbo Eared offspring. Best recipe? I know Blue is a simple recessive. I believe Dumbo Eared is also a simple recessive so I should just have to produce double het offspring correct?

[lord jackel]

Okay my rattie experts just a quick question. I have a Blue Self male. I have an Agouti Dumbo Eared female. I want a Blue Dumbo Eared offspring. Best recipe? I know Blue is a simple recessive. I believe Dumbo Eared is also a simple recessive so I should just have to produce double het offspring correct?

Correct...

But you will need to keep a close eye on them...double recessives have lots of potential issues (especially when blues are involved)...I end up with half being sterile.

[ADEE]

what about a blonde dumbo, what would i have to breed her with to get other dumbos? how are you all getting these pretty blazes (i know not great trait)?

[frankykeno]

Correct...

But you will need to keep a close eye on them...double recessives have lots of potential issues (especially when blues are involved)...I end up with half being sterile.

Yep we are going to be very careful in this. We really are looking just for one to be produced and to be healthy. If it never breeds in our colony, that's fine really. We'll see how it goes and if we start producing less than healthy offspring we'll call it a wash....I don't like seeing poor breeding results.

[SatanicIntention]

Since american blue is a recessive gene, it is going to take ALOT of inbreeding to produce those, unless you have 2-3 separate lines that all carry american blue AND dumbo. Blues don't have good immune systems anyway, don't ask me why, but everyone I've had has been afflicted with congestive heart failure, failure to thrive, stunted growth, temperments can be iffy(I've had sweet ones and I've had absolute spazzes), megacolon(in a 7-8 week old baby), cancer(malignant and benign), and other maladies.

Do you have russian blue or american blue? American blue can also carry MC along with it, for some odd reason. Russian blue is relatively safe.

You would need to have two dumbos that carry blue or two dumbo carriers that also carry blue. Outcross as much as possible.

I just don't feel it would be rewarding at all because you would likely get rats that are stunted in growth and have alot of problems. Just my opinion, but I feel that american blues and their dilutes have poor quality genes, and therefore, I would never introduce them into my breeding lines. From what I have seen, it's just not worth it. I don't like seeing my rats drop dead at a year old from fluid in their chest and abdomen from CHF, or hemmorrhage from their uterus for no apparent reason and subsequently die(I've had a blue based platinum and a double blue-silver blue- both pass away within a week of each other from these problems). I'll stick with my blacks, agoutis, blue agoutis, minks, burmese, and other known healthy lines.

[Sasquatch Art]

Since american blue is a recessive gene, it is going to take ALOT of inbreeding to produce those, unless you have 2-3 separate lines that all carry american blue AND dumbo. Blues don't have good immune systems anyway, don't ask me why, but everyone I've had has been afflicted with congestive heart failure, failure to thrive, stunted growth, temperments can be iffy(I've had sweet ones and I've had absolute spazzes), megacolon(in a 7-8 week old baby), cancer(malignant and benign), and other maladies.

0_o Whoa I never knew that about Blues. Thank you for the info.

[Flagg]

I've got american blues and dumbos, haven;t yet produced a blue dumbo but produced plenty of blues and dumbos and my blues seem just as healthy as any other rat. I've outcrossed the blue line a couple times, but producing blues doesn't take THAT much inbreeding, just one generation really.

I don't think there is anything inherent in blues that makes them less healthy. Some blue lines have probably been inbred excessively which might account for it.

[lord jackel]

I've got american blues and dumbos, haven;t yet produced a blue dumbo but produced plenty of blues and dumbos and my blues seem just as healthy as any other rat. I've outcrossed the blue line a couple times, but producing blues doesn't take THAT much inbreeding, just one generation really.

I don't think there is anything inherent in blues that makes them less healthy. Some blue lines have probably been inbred excessively which might account for it.

You may not notice the issues if you are feeding off most of the blue stock (as opposed to letting them grow up and die of old age). The issue comes in that ALL (I know it is a loaded word but essentially true in the grand scheme) blues are imbred. The original blue stock was only 1 rat found at a pet store in California (a blue hooded if memory serves). A few more were imported from Europe (and elsewhere) but no where near enough to forestall tons of imbreeding. So though you are outcrossing more than likely the blues are related somewhere in their near genetic pasts which is turn washes out the genes. There is just not a strong gene pool for blues in the US - and unfortunatley the pool that exists is weak and prone to issues (those that Becky points out).

[frankykeno]

I'm actually not sure what type of Blue, Elvis is. He's fairly dark, a steel sort of blue grey I'd say. In this pic the flash has brightened/washed out his color slightly, he's a bit darker than this.

[Flagg]

Most of the blues I've produced have been kept for pets and possible breeders.
If I had fed them all off then I wouldn't have posted that their health seems fine.

The original blue gene may have come from one source, but with enough outcrossing to non-blue, seemingly more diverse stock, I don't think the problems are as severe as you claim.