Temperature gradient

[Luvyna]

I'm trying to get a new enclosure set up for my BP and switching from using a CHE + heat mat to just an RHP for heating. My BP has had a temperature gradient of ~77F - 89F for most of his life, but in the new enclosure, the gradient would be more like ~82F - 88F. Is there an acceptable temperature range or should I try to make the cool side temperature lower?

[dakski]

I keep my BP about 78-80F cool side and 86-88F hot side. I would have to check literature, but 86-88F is more than enough to facilitate digestion, especially if you are feeding appropriate size meals.

My BP is an albino and spider morph and spider's are prone to neurological issues. That's party why I keep her a little cooler, but I do not see how it would have a negative impact on any other BP. She spends 80% of her time on the cool side on in the middle (where it is about 82-84F).

I would want your cool side a little cooler than 82F.

If you have to lower the hot side a little to achieve 80F cool side, it's probably worth it.

I have to ask, but are you checking the ground temps with an IR temp gun?

[Luvyna]

I keep my BP about 78-80F cool side and 86-88F hot side. I would have to check literature, but 86-88F is more than enough to facilitate digestion, especially if you are feeding appropriate size meals.

My BP is an albino and spider morph and spider's are prone to neurological issues. That's party why I keep her a little cooler, but I do not see how it would have a negative impact on any other BP. She spends 80% of her time on the cool side on in the middle (where it is about 82-84F).

I would want your cool side a little cooler than 82F.

If you have to lower the hot side a little to achieve 80F cool side, it's probably worth it.

I have to ask, but are you checking the ground temps with an IR temp gun?

Thanks for the input and the note about using a temp gun, I had been using two digital thermometers to measure ambient temps and hadn't tried using the temp gun yet!

The temp gun showed that the surface temperatures were higher than what the digital thermometers were showing so I lowered the temperature. I was able to get the gradient to 80-87F for surface temps measured with IR gun, and 78-84F ambient temps measured with digital thermometers.

[dakski]

Thanks for the input and the note about using a temp gun, I had been using two digital thermometers to measure ambient temps and hadn't tried using the temp gun yet!

The temp gun showed that the surface temperatures were higher than what the digital thermometers were showing so I lowered the temperature. I was able to get the gradient to 80-87F for surface temps measured with IR gun, and 78-84F ambient temps measured with digital thermometers.

Yeah, IR temp guns are where it is at. Ground temp is very important and IR temp guns are very accurate.

I am glad you were able to get a good temp gradient. Your BP will be happy!

When using the temp gun I check multiple spots on each side. I might hit 3 spots on the hot side and 3 on the cool side. Easy since you get an instant reading. That gives me more information. In my BP's tank, it is usually 87-89F under the RHP, but 85-87F where the heat panel isn't directly over. I use heat tape and an RHP together.

The point is if you have a small spot that's 90F and most are 87-88F, for example, that's fine. Additionally, as long as there is ample space for your BP to digest, it is okay if there are areas of the hot side that are a lower temp. A gradient there, if the hot side is big enough, is okay too.

It is always fun to get a new enclosure, for both you and your BP.

Enjoy and keep us posted!

[Luvyna]

Yeah, IR temp guns are where it is at. Ground temp is very important and IR temp guns are very accurate.

I am glad you were able to get a good temp gradient. Your BP will be happy!

When using the temp gun I check multiple spots on each side. I might hit 3 spots on the hot side and 3 on the cool side. Easy since you get an instant reading. That gives me more information. In my BP's tank, it is usually 87-89F under the RHP, but 85-87F where the heat panel isn't directly over. I use heat tape and an RHP together.

The point is if you have a small spot that's 90F and most are 87-88F, for example, that's fine. Additionally, as long as there is ample space for your BP to digest, it is okay if there are areas of the hot side that are a lower temp. A gradient there, if the hot side is big enough, is okay too.

It is always fun to get a new enclosure, for both you and your BP.

Enjoy and keep us posted!

Thank you! I check multiple spots as well, there are some parts of the enclosure near the edges that are cooler than 78F and it looks like the warmest parts are 87-88F. I focus on the temperatures for the hides since that's where my BP spends most of his time.

One other question I had was where I should be measuring the temperature for the warm spot with the temp gun - should I measure the bedding under the hide, or the outside top of the hide, or the inside ceiling of the hide? The top of the hide on the warm side is showing 87-88F (outside surface and ceiling) but the bedding in the warm hide is only around 85F.

I used to be able to get an 88-90F warm spot with belly heat for my BP, but if I was to get the temperature of the bedding inside the hide to 87F now, I would have to turn the heating higher, which would probably make the cool side temps too high and the outside surface/ceiling of the hide would also be warmer than 90F.

For context, my BP has two of those plastic black rectangular hides (one on the warm side, one on the cool side) and a cave hide in the middle.

[dakski]

Thank you! I check multiple spots as well, there are some parts of the enclosure near the edges that are cooler than 78F and it looks like the warmest parts are 87-88F. I focus on the temperatures for the hides since that's where my BP spends most of his time.

One other question I had was where I should be measuring the temperature for the warm spot with the temp gun - should I measure the bedding under the hide, or the outside top of the hide, or the inside ceiling of the hide? The top of the hide on the warm side is showing 87-88F (outside surface and ceiling) but the bedding in the warm hide is only around 85F.

I used to be able to get an 88-90F warm spot with belly heat for my BP, but if I was to get the temperature of the bedding inside the hide to 87F now, I would have to turn the heating higher, which would probably make the cool side temps too high and the outside surface/ceiling of the hide would also be warmer than 90F.

For context, my BP has two of those plastic black rectangular hides (one on the warm side, one on the cool side) and a cave hide in the middle.

I would want the ground temp in the hide to be 86-88F. However, I see the issue with the cool side getting too hot.

What kind of enclosure is it? Material and size. Could you use heat tape or a heat pad under it to get proper belly heat without raising air and ambient temps? That would be ideal and is what I do.

I also want to reiterate that 80F is okay for the cool side at the highest. If your cool side is 78F and has come cooler spots, bumping the temp a little to achieve proper hot side temps might be worth it without having to change your setup at all.

If a couple spots on the cool side are even 81F, but the majority are 78-80F, you are fine. I would not get overly caught up in every single spot of the cool side being under 80F unless it is a small enclosure.

Let us know and good luck.

[Kingofspades]

That range seems okay, but if you can drop the cool side to around 75F, that would help with thermoregulation. Just watch how your BP reacts.

[Homebody]

One other question I had was where I should be measuring the temperature for the warm spot with the temp gun - should I measure the bedding under the hide, or the outside top of the hide, or the inside ceiling of the hide?

Based on what you've said, I think you should measure basking temps on the top of the warm side hide. In any event, you should measure at the warmest place your bp can bask on. Otherwise, you risk giving your snake access to temps that are too high.

[Bogertophis]

Based on what you've said, I think you should measure basking temps on the top of the warm side hide. In any event, you should measure at the warmest place your bp can bask on. Otherwise, you risk giving your snake access to temps that are too high.

Agree, & IF using "UTH", be sure to push aside all substrate (just as snakes are known for doing) & take the temperature of the floor where they might make contact, to be sure they cannot be hurt.

[Luvyna]

Thank you for the input, everyone!

I have a PVC enclosure that is 4 ft wide, 2 feet deep, and 18" tall, heated with an RHP. I unfortunately don't know if a UTH is possible with this set up because the bottom of the enclosure seems too thick for heating to pass through.

Thanks also for mentioning to push aside the substrate for UTH temperature measurements, I always made sure to do this with my old enclosure!

I attempted to increase the temperature so that it can be ~88F under the hide, but even when the top surface/inside ceiling of the hide is 94F, the bedding stays at around 85F. I think the hide is insulating the bedding from the heat so it can't easily get higher than 85F and I wasn't comfortable raising the temperature any higher because 94F is already too warm for a BP. The hides aren't very tall, so I think the ceiling would be touching his back a lot of the time.

When the top of the warm hide was showing 94F, the warm side ambient temperature was showing 89F. If I turn down the heating a bit so that the top of the hide is 87-88F, the ambient temperature is around 84F.