What do I do with this poor baby?

[LindsayMichelle]

Omg this can't be right. I don't have a gram scale but I do have an infant scale that measures to the half ounce. I just weighed him (3oz) and converted oz to grams and he weighs 85.04 grams. I mean I know it's probably not terribly accurate but from what I just read 85 grams is way too small for his age right?! Here's a pic of him just now (the first two), one of him before I gave him a soak when he freaked me out (also the pic I sent to the breeder), and when I first got him.

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[Stewart_Reptiles]

Again

Do this to a T https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101 .

Feed a large hopper to weanling.

The key his optimum husbandry, assist feeding is not and is a vicious circle.

[Crowfingers]

First - Welcome to the forum
Also, soaking can be stressful in itself, but if severely dehydrated may be necessary - however I would use luke warm regular water, not pedialyte. It is balanced for mammals and contains a fair amount of sugar which snakes can't really process the same way. (it can also cause a sticky residue on his scales) Probably didn't hurt him, but regular water would be much better and absorbed more easily.

I used spring or reverse osmosis water that does not contain chlorine / ammonia (mainly habit from dealing with fish).

Getting a few good meals in him will defiantly help too. I'd find a good vet that specializes in reptiles (not just one that is willing to see them) to get a wellness exam and fecal will help too.

Looking at the pics you can also darken the all the sides of the cage by wrapping in dark paper or covering with a light towel, adding very secure hides (not the 1/2 log type things), keeping the humidity up, basically follow the hatchling 101 link as best as possible. Snakes are tough animals, now that you're providing better care he should be able to turn around - he just needs a little more TLC than others. This site is great for helping learn new stuff.

[LindsayMichelle]

Again

Feed a large hopper to weanling.

The key his optimum husbandry, assist feeding is not and is a vicious circle.

I think you misunderstood, I didn't post his weight and pictures in the hopes of getting the green light to assist feed. I have no desire to assist feed unless it is absolutely necessary. The only reason I did it before was because his breeder told me to. But I'm here because I'm wasn't sure I could trust him. I was also hoping to get some feedback on whether his wrinkly appearance was due to low weight or dehydration and how severe his condition is. As for the rest of the pictures and info, I'm going to have to finish that post tomorrow.

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[Kcl]

He doesn't look dangerously skinny to me. You can keep an eye on his weight, but as-is, it looks to me like he'll be just fine eating in his own time as long as husbandry is all set. The wrinkles could be an impending shed - he does also look to me like he might be a bit pinker in those photos, but it could be the lighting. It looks to me like he'll be just fine with good husbandry and maybe keeping humidity on the high end for now.

People have given you some tips on husbandry and feeding going forward and I'm sure will be happy to answer any additional questions you may have. Just some time and patience and minimal disturbance will likely fix your baby right up.

I would, if you can manage it, feed live until he's eaten a few meals. Otherwise it's too hard to tell if the issue is that he doesn't want or recognize the food you're offering vs he's still not feeling safe/comfortable enough to eat or some other problem. Eliminating as many variables as possible makes things easier.

[zina10]

If he really only weighs 83 gr. he couldn't have weighted that much more when you got him.

That means that at 6 1/2 month old he must have weighed 90 gr. or so. I bet that he was a hatchling that just wouldn't eat for the breeder and was eventually assist or force fed a couple of meals. Most likely "pinkies", since people will assist/force smaller meals.

There just isn't another good explanation for SUCH a low weight for the age.

I "assume" the breeder assist fed a few small meals and then decided to un-load that animal. It should have NEVER been sold. Esp. to someone with little experience. The added stress of being carted around to a show, moved to a new home etc, didn't help.

No wonder this animal is lethargic. Having had trouble swallowing a hopper and also not putting up much of a fight during assist feed also shows that this is a weak animal. Most likely due to the lack of nutrition during its life so far.

Just like everyone else said, make sure you have husbandry SPOT ON. That includes lots of privacy, blacking out sides and back of enclosure, hides, etc.

It is good that he was at least willing to take a meal (even if he didn't get it down yet). If the assist feeding may have given him a boost, he may be willing to take another hopper and get it down next time. Give a break with NO STRESS (no soaking, moving, handling) and then try the live hopper again and cross your fingers.

I think there is hope. And you are doing great trying to help this little one and seeking the right answers. So kudos to you.

As for the breeder selling such an animal ? Shame on him !!

[Caali]

This might be a stupid post but please keep us updated on the little one's progress. Don't hesitate to ask further questions!
But for now just nail the husbandry and keep your eyes on his progress (just like you're doing right now)!

[hollowlaughter]

As for the breeder selling such an animal ? Shame on him !!

Yeah, this is what I was thinking re: the breeder. All signs point to significant issues there, which nullifies what I was considering suggesting and many legitimate breeders will offer: returning the animal if there's severe issues like this. But that's unlikely going to be an option given the track record we've seen here, such as selling a underweight animal on live-feedings only in a place where live feeders are borderline inaccessible.

As the others have said, switching to a substrate that maintains humidity better, keeping the humidity up, and offering a waterbowl large enough the animal can soak if it wants (such as a saucer) will help on the hydration angle without stressing the animal like baths will.

As will Deborah's "stubborn baby" tutorial with the smaller tub and bare setup, which is intended to remove as many variables that might be keeping the animal from feeding as possible. As this point, it's not an emergency to make him eat based on the body shape (IMHO) so assist feedings and whatnot shouldn't be considered again and probably should be administered by a reptile vet in the future along with a fecal scan.

I only hope that the breeder did not sell one of those wasting babies that never get to eating on their own.

[LindsayMichelle]

If he really only weighs 83 gr. he couldn't have weighted that much more when you got him.

That means that at 6 1/2 month old he must have weighed 90 gr. or so. I bet that he was a hatchling that just wouldn't eat for the breeder and was eventually assist or force fed a couple of meals. Most likely "pinkies", since people will assist/force smaller meals.

There just isn't another good explanation for SUCH a low weight for the age.

I "assume" the breeder assist fed a few small meals and then decided to un-load that animal. It should have NEVER been sold. Esp. to someone with little experience. The added stress of being carted around to a show, moved to a new home etc, didn't help.

No wonder this animal is lethargic. Having had trouble swallowing a hopper and also not putting up much of a fight during assist feed also shows that this is a weak animal. Most likely due to the lack of nutrition during its life so far.

Just like everyone else said, make sure you have husbandry SPOT ON. That includes lots of privacy, blacking out sides and back of enclosure, hides, etc.

It is good that he was at least willing to take a meal (even if he didn't get it down yet). If the assist feeding may have given him a boost, he may be willing to take another hopper and get it down next time. Give a break with NO STRESS (no soaking, moving, handling) and then try the live hopper again and cross your fingers.

I think there is hope. And you are doing great trying to help this little one and seeking the right answers. So kudos to you.

As for the breeder selling such an animal ? Shame on him !!

The thought that I had been "swindled" did cross my mind when he started looking poorly. The breeder had said that he bought him to breed, but changed his mind about which morph he wanted to go with. Also, he had been marked down $50, which I assumed was because there were so many BPs on display at the show. I did ask about a health guarantee, and he kinda hesitated and said "yeah, I'll do two weeks." I realize now that I should have asked more questions. When I saw him I fell in love, but if I had known he wasn't an established eater or that feeders were banned here I would never have taken him.

So if I understand correctly the general consensus is that I should perfect my husbandry, leave him be for a while (how long?) And offer smaller F/T

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[LindsayMichelle]

Yeah, this is what I was thinking re: the breeder. All signs point to significant issues there, which nullifies what I was considering suggesting and many legitimate breeders will offer: returning the animal if there's severe issues like this. But that's unlikely going to be an option given the track record we've seen here, such as selling a underweight animal on live-feedings only in a place where live feeders are borderline inaccessible.

As the others have said, switching to a substrate that maintains humidity better, keeping the humidity up, and offering a waterbowl large enough the animal can soak if it wants (such as a saucer) will help on the hydration angle without stressing the animal like baths will.

As will Deborah's "stubborn baby" tutorial with the smaller tub and bare setup, which is intended to remove as many variables that might be keeping the animal from feeding as possible. As this point, it's not an emergency to make him eat based on the body shape (IMHO) so assist feedings and whatnot shouldn't be considered again and probably should be administered by a reptile vet in the future along with a fecal scan.

I only hope that the breeder did not sell one of those wasting babies that never get to eating on their own.

When you say wasting babies that never get to eating on their own, do you mean there's a chance he won't ever eat on his own?

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