thawd out chicken for ball pythons?

[Kaorte]

Scroll up. The question was never answered very well and not by anyone with first hand experience. My post was at least useful. You show up to criticize me posting something useful. Want to know what that's called? I'll give you a hint....It starts with "U" and it rhymes with "oosless".
In any case have Ball Pythons evolved that much in the last 7 years???

I didn't actually criticize you at all. I didn't comment to be helpful. I commented because I was, and still am, in DISBELIEF.

#1. I have a female ball that I've fed live medium rats to for 3+ years. My routine is to take her out of her cage to feed her, put her in the bathtub where the food is waiting for her. She knows that bathtub = food. As soon as she's in the bathtub I stay away because she's ready to strike. It took a while for her to figure this out, but she knows it now.

I love that you think you are doing your snake a favor by feeding it in a bathtub. I won't even get into this one because what follows is just so unbelievably pointless.

So recently the nearby pet store where I bought live rats closed and it's been a pain to get them. I'd contemplated going with pre-killed but I really don't like keeping dead rats in my freezer or thawing them.

So what you are saying here is that you are too lazy to thaw rats and that... you don't like having them in your freezer? Why? Does it gross you out? Why do you even have a snake? This is kind of part of the deal...

So I thawed a piece of raw chicken

Oh so its fine to keep raw chicken in your freezer but not a rat? Whats the deal? Oh and suddenly its not a big deal to thaw a piece of chicken??????

and then put her in the bathtub. She quickly got into "striking position" of course.

Sigh.

I used tongs and dangled the chicken strip

Just listen to yourself. A CHICKEN STRIP.

I do plan on giving her rats as well however she'll eat a lot of chicken as well.

Okay so she eats rats... what is the point of giving her chicken at all? Why? Just for fun? Just so you can say you did it? This is not really a good reason.

I may also try to give her a whole fish.

WHY. WHY.

Note: I also warmed an egg, smothered it in the chicken to add a scent, and left that in the tub for her as well but she wasn't interested in that at all.

You don't say. Shocker.

#2. When I was a poor college student I bought a beautiful 7' Red Tail Colombian female for $60.

Look, we've all been poor college students.... but if you are getting to the point where you don't have enough money to feed the animal... Maybe you shouldn't have an animal. And honestly...frozen rats are incredibly inexpensive. Probably less expensive than raw chicken...

I'd buy her a large rat from the pet store to kill and eat. While she was swallowing the back end of the rat I'd take her and push a thawed (raw) chicken drumstick down right after the rat.

What was so wrong with just feeding her the rat? Was the meal really that small without the extra CHICKEN DRUMSTICK

She got a sizable meal and I was spending less on food for her. She never complained....although I'm sure I'll pick up some criticism for that one in the comments to follow.

Gee I wonder why the snake never complained. You know exactly why you are picking up criticism. Its obvious.

I agree with what others have said...snakes need more than just chicken meat to be healthy.

Or perhaps... no raw chicken meat at all? Whole prey only???


This question was answered pretty well I think. It is generally an unacceptable practice to feed RAW CHICKEN to a snake. A chick is one thing. Snakes need whole prey items to get the correct nutrition and hydration. A chicken drumstick???? A chicken strip???? A FISH.

FISH.

Sincerely hoping this is just a troll post. I am just baffled.

[Kcl]

Your proposed diet for your ball python is deeply inappropriate for the species and I sincerely hope you'll change your decision on this.

The biggest difficulty in altering the diet from the "tried & true" is that there is not a solid answer on the exact nutritional needs of the ball python. However, there is some information available on the wild diet (see this link for a 1997 study http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...50009809386744).

Some issues with each of the items you've chosen:

- strips of raw chicken:
1) As has been previously noted, much chicken is injected with saline solution, I believe up to 15%. Snakes generally do not have the ability to process those kinds of salt levels. While I do not know at what point the salt will have severe effects on a ball python, excess salt has been known to kill garter snakes whose keepers fed frozen fish with added salt.
2) As has been previously noted, commercial chicken generally contains hormones. These have been known to have a wide variety of negative effects even at significantly sub-lethal dosages on a wide variety of animals which ranges from the more expected reproductive issues to significant immunosuppressive effects (citations avail -ask). The dosage you are giving a snake will be significantly higher than the dosage you are consuming yourself.
3) Most commercial chicken has antibiotics in it. The use of antibiotics to promote growth in livestock has been implicated in the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacterial infections. Effects of these antibiotics on snakes' natural and necessary gut flora? Unknown.
4) Raw chicken breast is only muscle meat and will naturally be significantly lacking in calcium and a variety of other nutrients compared to whole prey. Likely higher protein and lower fat than either the wild diet or the regular captivity diet. Will this fit actual dietary needs? Unknown but unlikely.

- Raw fish:
1) Not ever identified as a prey item for wild ball pythons.
2) Even keepers of fish eating snakes need to be careful of the fish species fed as many fish contain thiaminase which can cause a lethal vitamin deficiency
3) Effects of feeding fish to ball pythons = unknown. Likely to be negative due to vast departure from wild diet

-Egg
1) Not ever identified as a prey item for wild ball pythons
2) Species that eat eggs are often anatomically specialized to do so. Many of them crack the shell with their muscles after swallowing and then spit the shell back out
3) Effects of feeding eggs to ball pythons = unknown. Likely to be negative due to vast departure from wild diet

This is not comprehensive but hopefully helps you to reconsider your chosen diet in favor of something more species appropriate.
Whole chicks and quail may be appropriate for ball pythons as at least the study linked above found that 70% of prey items for male ball pythons were birds. However, even this is something that should likely really be attempted by more experienced keepers as exact nutritional needs are unknown and the all rat diet has been shown to appropriately support this species in captivity.

Tl;dr - please just buy some rats.

[Lizardlicks]

Also, even for those who do feed WHOLE prekilled or F/T chicks, they usually only feed it as a treat as part of enrichment, because... well, I have been told on numerous occasions the poop smell afterward is HORRENDOUS compared to their usual BMs.

[Kira]

Scroll up. The question was never answered very well and not by anyone with first hand experience. My post was at least useful. You show up to criticize me posting something useful. Want to know what that's called? I'll give you a hint....It starts with "U" and it rhymes with "oosless".
In any case have Ball Pythons evolved that much in the last 7 years???

Funny how the one who isn't taking proper care of their snake and is encouraging others to try these absurd methods is calling everyone else's posts useless.

If you can't handle feeding your snake rats, then maybe a snake isn't the right pet for you.

[Zincubus]

Also, even for those who do feed WHOLE prekilled or F/T chicks, they usually only feed it as a treat as part of enrichment, because... well, I have been told on numerous occasions the poop smell afterward is HORRENDOUS compared to their usual BMs.

Yes that's what I found to be honest on the odd occasions I resorted to using chicks . I presumed it was to do with the change if diet rather like our neighbours experience when she tried her dog on some vegetarian tinned dog food - not a positive experience at all
Although I guess their systems may get used to the diet change in time ...

[Kcl]

Yes that's what I found to be honest on the odd occasions I resorted to using chicks . I presumed it was to do with the change if diet rather like our neighbours experience when she tried her dog on some vegetarian tinned dog food - not a positive experience at all
Although I guess their systems may get used to the diet change in time ...

Maybe - I think it's much more common in the UK to use birds frequently. I also don't know how similar day old chicks are to the sunbirds, weavers, starlings, and juvenile African grays that were found in their wild diet. If I had to guess, quail might be more similar nutritionally since they're older, but it's really just a guess, I haven't looked into it specifically. And as noted, who really knows exactly what bps dietary requirements are? Which is why I think switching it up even with chicks should be done by those who know how to tell if the diet is working ok and the snake is healthy and not by new keepers. The default of rats is fully adequate and the least risk since it's been fully and extensively trialled.

Now vegetarian dog food -- highly questionable, but at least it's not vegetarian cat food.

[Zincubus]

Maybe - I think it's much more common in the UK to use birds frequently. I also don't know how similar day old chicks are to the sunbirds, weavers, starlings, and juvenile African grays that were found in their wild diet. If I had to guess, quail might be more similar nutritionally since they're older, but it's really just a guess, I haven't looked into it specifically. And as noted, who really knows exactly what bps dietary requirements are? Which is why I think switching it up even with chicks should be done by those who know how to tell if the diet is working ok and the snake is healthy and not by new keepers. The default of rats is fully adequate and the least risk since it's been fully and extensively trialled.

Now vegetarian dog food -- highly questionable, but at least it's not vegetarian cat food.

Pretty sure the veggie dog food was created by Linda McCartney ( Paul's wife ) ...

[Kcl]

Pretty sure the veggie dog food was created by Linda McCartney ( Paul's wife ) ...

Really I guess highly questionable is the wrong words to use. Dogs are omnivores so it can be done. I probably wouldn't myself, but really I think it's mostly tainted in my head by the people who want to try to put cats, who are obligate carnivores, on vegetarian diets. Didn't mean to be overly critical about it-sorry!

[Zincubus]

Really I guess highly questionable is the wrong words to use. Dogs are omnivores so it can be done. I probably wouldn't myself, but really I think it's mostly tainted in my head by the people who want to try to put cats, who are obligate carnivores, on vegetarian diets. Didn't mean to be overly critical about it-sorry!

No .. I didn't take any offence of anything

It just came to me that it was Paul McCartneys wife who invented / created it ...

[SKO]

Lololol you guys kill me! This thread went from feeding raw chicken to snakes to "Paul McCartney's wife made veggie dog food".