Wrinkled Skin

[Austinwwest]

Hello, about 2 weeks ago I got my first ball python. I think he's going through his first shed but I am unsure. Depending on how you look at his eyes they can be normal or a little discolored. I noticed the skin around his head was a little wrinkled and some of the scales on his lower body were loose a few days ago. But today when I took him out his whole body was wrinkled and I have no idea why. He always has access to fresh water, I try to keep the humidity between 50% - 60% and mist about 3 times a day but sometimes it drops down to 40% but I mist it right away. Is this normal? Does this mean he is going through shed or is he just dehydrated? If he is dehydrated how can I hydrate him? Here is a picture of him http://imgur.com/a/6KeJF

[Eric Alan]

If you noticed loose scales, chances are what you're seeing is a stuck shed. They don't normally get loose scales and should shed entirely in one piece. It's tough to see exactly what's going on beyond REALLY wrinkled skin in that picture (which is certainly not normal - even when they are in shed).

Here are two threads to read through that should help you out:

1. The Shedding Process: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...edding-Process
2. Bad Shed? No Problem.: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

[audioclass]

Looks like a failed shed. I had a similar problem with my baby during her first shed with me also. I also misted like yourself and it just doesn't seem to keep up with the rate of humidity loss at night so I couldn't keep her hydrated. I've got a PVC cage on the way so I never have to worry about it again. I was directed here to help with the stuck shed: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

I made the water about 86F, and I left her in there with a small washcloth for the full hour recommended. Once she came out the toughest part is getting a piece of shed started that you can gently work back. It may take more than one soak(only once per day) before you can get the shed removed, especially around the head. She still has a tiny bit on her head but her eyes are clear and her whole body is clear, and she's eating like a champ still with no more wrinkles, so I'm going to leave it alone for now to see if she gets rid of it on her own or during the next shed.

Edit: Eric, who helped me out, also beat me to the punch here!

[Austinwwest]

If you noticed loose scales, chances are what you're seeing is a stuck shed. They don't normally get loose scales and should shed entirely in one piece. It's tough to see exactly what's going on beyond REALLY wrinkled skin in that picture (which is certainly not normal - even when they are in shed).

Here are two threads to read through that should help you out:

1. The Shedding Process: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...edding-Process
2. Bad Shed? No Problem.: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

Thank you for responding. The scales that are loose are just lifting up a little bit and are do not look like the scales that are on the bad shed thread and are only on the bottom. Should I try to follow the steps on the bad shed thread even if I'm not sure he is going through a shed? Do you know what could be the cause of the wrinkles? This is my first time experiencing this so sorry if I sound like i have no idea what's going on at all.

EDIT: I also have tin foil on top of the screen top to help keep humidity in.

[audioclass]

Thank you for responding. The scales that are loose are just lifting up a little bit and are do not look like the scales that are on the bad shed thread and are only on the bottom. Should I try to follow the steps on the bad shed thread even if I'm not sure he is going through a shed? Do you know what could be the cause of the wrinkles? This is my first time experiencing this so sorry if I sound like i have no idea what's going on at all.

I can't say with 100% certainty since I'm new to this as well, but this is exactly how my girl looked when her shed was stuck. She couldn't even get the shed started, much less get small pieces off until right before I helped her out. She got a few pieces off the night after I first soaked her, and I got the rest off with the second soak.

I was dumbstruck since I thought I was paying great attention to her humidity and did my best to mist frequently and keep her humidity over 60%. Alas, apparently I wasn't doing enough, because she still looked like a sad little mess almost exactly the way your pictures show.

Long story short, even with a foiled-top (I did the same) it seems glass enclosures are just awful for BP husbandry. There's no way to mist while you are asleep, and the humidity drops to the 40s by the time I wake up, tin-foil or not. I'm switching to a plastic enclosure from Constrictors NW and hoping that will give her a better home.
I soaked her for an hour a day for two days and was able to get the shed off, and she's back to her normal pudgy non-wrinkly self.

[Eric Alan]

Thank you for responding. The scales that are loose are just lifting up a little bit and are do not look like the scales that are on the bad shed thread and are only on the bottom. Should I try to follow the steps on the bad shed thread even if I'm not sure he is going through a shed? Do you know what could be the cause of the wrinkles? This is my first time experiencing this so sorry if I sound like i have no idea what's going on at all.

EDIT: I also have tin foil on top of the screen top to help keep humidity in.

Without a better picture or being there in person, it's hard to say exactly what's going on. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's a completely stuck shed - not just a bad shed like in the pics in the thread. Dry, stuck skin isn't flexible at all, which would cause the wrinkles. I would follow the steps in the bad shed thread and see how things progress.

Also, proper sheds aren't just the result of what you do in the window just before shedding - it's about proper care all of the time. With him only being in your care for the last two weeks, it would have been tough to course-correct enough to get him through a shed properly if he weren't in the right conditions before. Chances are this isn't a result of anything you did wrong, so all you need to do now is help him through it and make sure he's set up for success going forward. Good luck!

[Austinwwest]

I can't say with 100% certainty since I'm new to this as well, but this is exactly how my girl looked when her shed was stuck. She couldn't even get the shed started, much less get small pieces off until right before I helped her out. She got a few pieces off the night after I first soaked her, and I got the rest off with the second soak.

I was dumbstruck since I thought I was paying great attention to her humidity and did my best to mist frequently and keep her humidity over 60%. Alas, apparently I wasn't doing enough, because she still looked like a sad little mess almost exactly the way your pictures show.

Long story short, even with a foiled-top (I did the same) it seems glass enclosures are just awful for BP husbandry. There's no way to mist while you are asleep, and the humidity drops to the 40s by the time I wake up, tin-foil or not. I'm switching to a plastic enclosure from Constrictors NW and hoping that will give her a better home.
I soaked her for an hour a day for two days and was able to get the shed off, and she's back to her normal pudgy non-wrinkly self.

Would putting plexiglass on top work better to keep in humidity?

EDIT: Here are some better pictures I took, http://imgur.com/a/QukUV http://imgur.com/a/fCr0M http://imgur.com/a/7iTP5

[audioclass]

I think (at least in my case) it has more to do with the heat sources we are forced to use in order to maintain heat in a glass enclosure. I run a CHE, for example, with only a tiny amount of space around the CHE un-foiled. Unfortunately, the CHE heats the air up (the element itself approaches 500F which super-heats the air around it regardless of the radiant-heating it does to the cage, which zaps all the humidity out and the heated air carries it up and away. from the cage. It was worse when I was on paper-towel substrate, because it barely held any moisture so the fluctuations were rapid. I switched to herptopia coconut substrate and I've had a much easier time managing the humidity. That being said, I still have to mist every few hours which means at night I'm dropping to the 40s and staying there until I wake up to mist again.

I suppose you could TRY plexi, but I don't see why it would perform any better than the foil-top aside from potentially holding in heat better. My CHE pretty much runs at 100% all the time in the cold new england weather here, and they are known to sap humidity. This is my main reason for switching to a plastic enclosure. I'll be going to a radiant heat panel, which will stem the humidity loss due to heating element, and the material will insulate better, which means less RUNNING the heat element, which will also stem the humidity loss. There are plenty of stories of people making glass enclosures work, which is why I thought "What the heck!" and tried it myself, but It's just been an annoyance since day one, so I can't wait to switch.

Edit: Yup, looks just like my Luna did. Try the soak.

[Austinwwest]

Just realized I posted the same image twice, heres another http://imgur.com/a/J5iju

[Eric Alan]

EDIT: Here are some better pictures I took, http://imgur.com/a/QukUV http://imgur.com/a/fCr0M http://imgur.com/a/7iTP5

1,000,000% stuck shed. MUCH better pics!