Virgin Birth?

[Complex-Genetics]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum and I have a question I hope someone can help me with. I was watching Brian Barczyk and he was talking about how his Reticulated Python had a virgin birth. Is this where a snake gets pregnant by herself? If so, how? He didn't explain much and he used some other words I couldn't make out, so that's why I'm asking. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

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[Charles8088]

Its called parthenogenesis, and its rare... I'm sure others will weigh in more.

I've just been reading up about it myself accidentally. Sounds cool.

[Complex-Genetics]

Oh ok, so that's what he was saying, and yeah it does. I never heard of anything like it and I'm very interested in learning more.

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[Stewart_Reptiles]

Parthenogenesis is highly unlikely, while cases in BP have been reported however not much was known about the animals in question, it was more likely retained sperm instead.

Now is it possible yes but again you would probably more likely to win the lottery.

[ScottS]

An animal cell normally contains two sets ofchromosomes. In an animal’s gonads, aparticular type of cell division called meiosis produces gametes (egg or spermcells) that have contain only one set.At fertilization the egg and sperm unite to produce a cell with thenormal compliment of two sets.In thecase of parthenogenesis that step is skipped in the production of eggs, andeach egg receives the full compliment of the females chromosomes and these eggsare viable.

Dr Gordon Schuett and colleges have been doing extensiveresearch on DNA in herps and have found much parthenogenesis more common thenoriginally thought. With the recentadvances in DNA sequencing is much easier to establish whether or notparthenogenesis has occurred.Quitesimply, if an offspring’s DNA is identical to it’s mother’s, you can be 100percent sure that parthenogenesis has occurred; and yes it does occur in ballpythons.

[Complex-Genetics]

Thank you both and man that's Pretty cool.

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[cchardwick]

Wow, that actually throws a wrench into my confidence in genetics. So you can put a male pied with a female normal and get babies, but are those babies really het pied or was it a virgin birth? I saw the same video about Brian, the only way he knew is that all three babies looked like the mom and the timing of the egg laying was too early based on when he put the male in there. But if he was breeding a recessive and the timing was right he would have never known. That really throws into question all the het recessive genes out there, more of a gamble than I thought it would be. I wonder what the odds of a virgin birth are? I've never really heard of anyone having a female snake that laid viable eggs by herself, it was the first I've ever heard about it.

[Complex-Genetics]

Wow, that actually throws a wrench into my confidence in genetics. So you can put a male pied with a female normal and get babies, but are those babies really het pied or was it a virgin birth? I saw the same video about Brian, the only way he knew is that all three babies looked like the mom and the timing of the egg laying was too early based on when he put the male in there. But if he was breeding a recessive and the timing was right he would have never known. That really throws into question all the het recessive genes out there, more of a gamble than I thought it would be. I wonder what the odds of a virgin birth are? I've never really heard of anyone having a female snake that laid viable eggs by herself, it was the first I've ever heard about it.

I watched some of his other videos leading up to the egg cutting a few hours ago and he said something about the mother ovulating so he put a male in there to help fertilize her eggs so there could have a been a change that the eggs could have had both parents genetics but he couldn't have been 100% sure because there was only 3 eggs. They all just happened to come out like the mother. He said it was more and likely a virgin birth because of the timing the eggs where laid, and all of them may have not been fertilized, could have been why there was only 3. It does make me curious about the genetics too. Like would a 2 gene animal come from 2 1 gene animals or 1 2 gene mother and does it also cause problems with the babies being born like that. It's all pretty fascinating to me.

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[cchardwick]

I would think it would be similar to a clone, so if you had a four gene female that went through parthenogenesis you would end up with all four gene babies. Correct? I've actually seen someone breed a Bamboo ball python with a male that had different genes and all the babies came out Bamboo. I thought, what are the odds? Maybe it was a normal looking super Bamboo? But now I think it may have really been parthenogenesis. This is starting to make sense. There's some really odd stuff happening out there and it just takes some time to figure it all out.

[Complex-Genetics]

And it's apparently extremely rare. He said in one video that's his 2nd time ever having to deal with this situation and your right about not knowing. It really does concerns me about the hets and possible hets being sold.

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