Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?

[chakup]

That's why I was hoping someone's tested it. Maybe even to point of testing female maker male to female vs male maker to female.

[Yamitaifu]

Has this been proven or is it still just assume from other snakes? Because if females were heretozygotes then wouldn't partho clutches be equal ratios instead of being all female?

The burmese python is the only snake (that i know of) that has had its genome completely sequenced. Pygmy rattlesnakes and garter snakes have had part of theirs sequenced and they all point to the above mentioned. The odds of it being reversed are very slim.

Parthenogenesis is a strange anomaly in which the offspring (atleast of those observed in the case of one mother producing three litters) have had WW sex chromosomes. The outcome was fourty-some babies with WW. Unfortunately i'm on my phone and dont have the link but you can find a write-up about it online. It appears that only the W is copied and passed on to the offspring.

You bring up a good point though. Unfortunately limited studies have been done concerning reptile genomics so we only have so much to go off of.


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[OhhWatALoser]

Also burms and ball pythons have successfully made hybrids, giving more doubt to the XY theory.

[Yamitaifu]

Also burms and ball pythons have successfully made hybrids, giving more doubt to the XY theory.

^And the hybrids have been bred and produced offspring, proving that they are fertile.


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[kxr]

The best way I can describe it on the more genetic level. Is that the gene for the banana color allele is found on the sex chromosomes. On a female it doesn't do the sex ratio thing since there are 2 X chromosomes and it doesn't matter which chromosome the gene is on. It works with males since there is only one of each. And if the male banana gets its gene from its mother, then the gene for banana is on its X chromosome. So any time the male sends an X chromosome making a female baby, it'll carry the banana gene with it. Where as sending a Y chromosome won't have the gene. Making a female maker. the same is true for the male side of the equation.
The reason for the random male or female banana where it shouldn't be, is due to crossover. Where during mitosis or meiosis, genes get swapped from one chromosome to another, swapping the banana gene from the X to the Y chromosome in a female maker, giving you that random male. The super form of the banana has a gene for the banana allele of both the X and Y chromosome, so all male and female with show as banana.

I hope this makes sense. And helps some.

Kyle


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This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm glad someone else was thinking the same thing, now I know I'm not just crazy XD This explanation makes a lot of sense so it'd be strange if ball python females truly were heterozygous. I'd almost say the banana trait helps support them being homozygous.

Although if their genome has been sequenced and they are heterozygous it definitely adds a certain sort of mystery to the banana trait.

[Yamitaifu]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm glad someone else was thinking the same thing, now I know I'm not just crazy XD This explanation makes a lot of sense so it'd be strange if ball python females truly were heterozygous. I'd almost say the banana trait helps support them being homozygous.

Although if their genome has been sequenced and they are heterozygous it definitely adds a certain sort of mystery to the banana trait.

This is what it would appear at first glance without knowing that female snakes are the heterogamete. While the ball python has not had its genome sequenced, other species of snakes have had their genome sequenced and they have followed this rule. Obviously we cannot know for certain if the ball python follows this as well without sequencing its genome, but the possibility that it differs is unlikely.

If it turned out that the male was the heterogamete it would solve this problem. But as ohhwataloser stated, burms and balls have been hybridized, making it even more unlikely.


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[kxr]

This is what it would appear at first glance without knowing that female snakes are the heterogamete. While the ball python has not had its genome sequenced, other species of snakes have had their genome sequenced and they have followed this rule. Obviously we cannot know for certain if the ball python follows this as well without sequencing its genome, but the possibility that it differs is unlikely.

If it turned out that the male was the heterogamete it would solve this problem. But as ohhwataloser stated, burms and balls have been hybridized, making it even more unlikely.


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That is a problem, one would assume that in animals as closely related as Burms and balls seemingly are the chromosomal arrangement would be highly conserved. I'm not aware of any organisms where this isn't true however I'd imagine it isn't impossible. What I am curious about is whether two related organisms that have different patterns of sex chromosomes would even be able to produce viable offspring. I'd really like to see what sexes a male burm female ball breeding would produce because that would answer the question.

I apologize if that has already happened and I'm just not aware. Please let me know if it has.

[OhhWatALoser]

The last time I read up on it, the ZW thing has been around since the beginning of time as far as we can tell. Some point in evolution Mammals developed the XY in a common ancestor to both snake and humans. I bring this up so some can understand this happen a really long time ago and it's not something that just happens all the time. Switching to XY would be ground breaking, it's not just a random monogenetic mutation like pastel, it would be something that disrupts a pattern hundreds of millions of years long. Given we have other systems, it obviously is not impossible. But to think ball pythons managed to make the switch has to be taken with a pile of salt. I think most would need a little more proof than a gene that only fits with the other model with a pretty high crossing over rate on top of it.

[kxr]

The last time I read up on it, the ZW thing has been around since the beginning of time as far as we can tell. Some point in evolution Mammals developed the XY in a common ancestor to both snake and humans. I bring this up so some can understand this happen a really long time ago and it's not something that just happens all the time. Switching to XY would be ground breaking, it's not just a random monogenetic mutation like pastel, it would be something that disrupts a pattern hundreds of millions of years long. Given we have other systems, it obviously is not impossible. But to think ball pythons managed to make the switch has to be taken with a pile of salt. I think most would need a little more proof than a gene that only fits with the other model with a pretty high crossing over rate on top of it.

I was thinking that maybe in the python genus it had switched to the female being zz instead of the male however I was just showing my ignorance. Burmese pythons are in fact in the python genus anyway (which I'm really dumb for not remembering because I've done a few projects on them) and apparently (I know nothing about ZW sex determination) in all applicable species the males are zz. The rate of crossover required for the banana gene to follow that mode of inheritance is another good point. I'm just going to shut up now so I don't seem as stupid to the people who know what's going on here...

Just out of curiosity do you know the underlying principles behind the inheritance patterns of the banana gene?

[OhhWatALoser]

I was thinking that maybe in the python genus it had switched to the female being zz instead of the male however I was just showing my ignorance. Burmese pythons are in fact in the python genus anyway (which I'm really dumb for not remembering because I've done a few projects on them) and apparently (I know nothing about ZW sex determination) in all applicable species the males are zz. The rate of crossover required for the banana gene to follow that mode of inheritance is another good point. I'm just going to shut up now so I don't seem as stupid to the people who know what's going on here...

Just out of curiosity do you know the underlying principles behind the inheritance patterns of the banana gene?

When I mention the switch I mean what you describe, in your example females could be ww also in theory. But it is a highly unlikely scenario was my point. Also no one is stupid here, just having a discussion, and don't think any of us know what's going on exactly. it an anomaly that I have yet to have anyone explain it in a way without holes in the theory.