Found the face rub/pushing issue...

[dkatz4]

I have all sliding glass doors and none of my snakes try to grab the center pillar when coming out. You do realize that even with swinging doors, you will still have a center pillar. Its put there for structure to keep the center of the cage from sagging. I like the sliding doors as you can easily remove them when cleaning the cage just by lifting them off the track and setting them aside. They also double as shields when a snake really wants dinner lol. The only downside I see so far is the gap between the from PVC frame and the sliding doors. Also I have heard from a couple people that the swinging doors will sag after a while and to close them and line them up right, you have to lift them a little and then flip the lock tabs around the door. I also personally like glass better as it doesn't scratch like acrylic. My Pro Line has a nice scratch down the front when my boa got extra hungry and tagged the door and somehow scratched it. It also just has scratches from years of wiping it down with paper towels to clean it and stuff.

Hmmm... good point re. the center support. Maybe in the post i'm remembering they were talking about a 3 or 4 ft cage (?) I agree that glass is better, I will be building my own custom enclosure (i have some cabinet-maker buddies who will guide and help me for beer/pizza) so hopefully we can come up with a framing solution to support a swinging glass door, although i have to imagine the sagging acrylic would be cured if the acrylic door were framed, the ones i've seen all seem to just be a loos sheet with hinges and clasps bolted directly into them.

Sorry, this is getting into a discussion for the caging forum, I didn't mean to derail the thread, it was super interesting - may i ask a retic feeding and growth question to try and get back on track? This may be a really dumb question (sorry in advance) I dont have a retic, but would love to some day, a high % SD ideally. So in my little retic fantasy, i grow him up quick with lots of food, but then put on the brakes to keep him from ballooning into a monster. Can it work that way? If i feed him hard for, i dont know, 2 years to try and put on size fast, can i then slow down the feedings and his growth rate safely? I worry that the change would negatively impact his health and/or his demeanor - or maybe it just wouldn't work the way i'm envisioning. I've seen in Cody's videos how he got one who had been on a maintenance schedule and accelerated its growth by increasing its meals, i guess i'm asking if the inverse of that would work as well.

[Sauzo]

No idea about that dkatz4. I know at 5 months old, Caesar loves to eat. I think I finally found his limit though lol. He hit the lottery for food. He got his weaned rat, then he got 1 mouse after the JCP had her limit of 2. Then tonight, I tried to offer the BP a small rat but as I figured, she is done with food for the year and wont eat again until around Mar/Apr so Caesar got a small rat too. Think i'll go a week now before offering him food again instead of his 4-5 days lol.

[AbsoluteApril]

So in my little retic fantasy, i grow him up quick with lots of food, but then put on the brakes to keep him from ballooning into a monster. Can it work that way?

Generally speaking for most snakes, feeding fast when young is what makes them reach a larger overall size, so no, it won't work that way.
Also most snakes will continue to grow their entire lives.

[jmcrook]

Hmmm... good point re. the center support. Maybe in the post i'm remembering they were talking about a 3 or 4 ft cage (?) I agree that glass is better, I will be building my own custom enclosure (i have some cabinet-maker buddies who will guide and help me for beer/pizza) so hopefully we can come up with a framing solution to support a swinging glass door, although i have to imagine the sagging acrylic would be cured if the acrylic door were framed, the ones i've seen all seem to just be a loos sheet with hinges and clasps bolted directly into them.

Sorry, this is getting into a discussion for the caging forum, I didn't mean to derail the thread, it was super interesting - may i ask a retic feeding and growth question to try and get back on track? This may be a really dumb question (sorry in advance) I dont have a retic, but would love to some day, a high % SD ideally. So in my little retic fantasy, i grow him up quick with lots of food, but then put on the brakes to keep him from ballooning into a monster. Can it work that way? If i feed him hard for, i dont know, 2 years to try and put on size fast, can i then slow down the feedings and his growth rate safely? I worry that the change would negatively impact his health and/or his demeanor - or maybe it just wouldn't work the way i'm envisioning. I've seen in Cody's videos how he got one who had been on a maintenance schedule and accelerated its growth by increasing its meals, i guess i'm asking if the inverse of that would work as well.

No worries about shifting the discussion. It was partially about a habit of a species and partially about the specifics of the cage she is in.
In regards to your SD inquiries, if you want an SD retic to stay manageable size look for a pure SD, male, and don't power feed. Sure, they are somewhat bound by genetics to stay smaller but they are very opportunistic feeders and will eat every time food is offered. Maintenance feeding schedule should generally keep growth in check but each animal is different. My snakes parents are 5' dad, and 6-7' mom who apparently just laid a new clutch of eggs. Daniel Solis is the breeder, might get in touch with him if you're interested. Probably hatching early 2017. I'm expecting mine to grow somewhat larger than its mother, as Phyllis is already at 5' and she's just about 9 months old. 9' is in the realm of possibility if she keeps growing like she has been


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[reptileexperts]

When blood is on your glass you should worry. Pushing is a common thing in retics - some people are open about it - others are just slightly set away from it because they don't want to talk about it or haven't experienced it.

Ambient can be perfect. Space perfect. Hides perfect, and it will still happen. There are two things to try - one has been mentioned, the other I don't believe has been. During pushing increase food. If pushing occurs on the cooler side, drop temperatures a little more. These guys enjoy the cooler end of the spectrum. 70 degrees is comfortable for some of them. Mine only go to heat after a big meal. Otherwise they stay around 72 degrees.

Other thing you can do is a little more proactive - get a two liter bottle and put some warm water in it and seal it tighter. Put the bottle in the enclosure. They like to push. So this is giving them something else to push around. Cage too small for that? use a 1 liter or 20 ounce bottle. This can offer them some preoccupation with the pushing and calms them down overtime.

Hope it helps.

Cheers

[Gio]

I think the maintenance feeding option is healthy and wise for males, and probably OK for females if you are not going to breed.

At this point, I have a relatively calm snake that seems to be growing slowly and eating a small rat every 7-10 days. It has really been 7 day spaces with an early on 4 day space. The 10 day space is coming this round. I'm going to let him shed.

Without doing anything drastic, you can somewhat put your animal into a slower cycle with feeding if you use some season cues. Less daylight, slightly lower temps and a little longer between meals.

I'm not sure the first year is the time to practice that however. The diet of a growing snake varies a great deal in the wild and they are not as reliant on the migrations, birthing patterns and habits of other animals when young. They tend to have more to choose from year round so I plan to continue the course.

It will be interesting to see how our little group of SD and SD X Dwarf keepers does when we look at growth and size toward adulthood.

I certainly haven't forgotten about my 3 other species, but this is newer ground and I enjoy the company!

[jmcrook]

When blood is on your glass you should worry. Pushing is a common thing in retics - some people are open about it - others are just slightly set away from it because they don't want to talk about it or haven't experienced it.

Ambient can be perfect. Space perfect. Hides perfect, and it will still happen. There are two things to try - one has been mentioned, the other I don't believe has been. During pushing increase food. If pushing occurs on the cooler side, drop temperatures a little more. These guys enjoy the cooler end of the spectrum. 70 degrees is comfortable for some of them. Mine only go to heat after a big meal. Otherwise they stay around 72 degrees.

Other thing you can do is a little more proactive - get a two liter bottle and put some warm water in it and seal it tighter. Put the bottle in the enclosure. They like to push. So this is giving them something else to push around. Cage too small for that? use a 1 liter or 20 ounce bottle. This can offer them some preoccupation with the pushing and calms them down overtime.

Hope it helps.

Cheers

Thanks reptileexperts! No blood on the glass thankfully. I'm fairly certain it was her way of protesting a few smaller meals in a row. Increased her prey size, dropped temps a few degrees and filled the gap she was jamming her face in. Calmed down noticeably within that day. She's in shed now with a considerable sausage butt, and is due to feed today but I may wait until she sheds, though she will take food when she's cloudy eyed. She usually sheds 4-5 days after going blue but that would be a few days past her set feeding day. Would you recommend offering food as a proactive solution to keeping pushing in check? Thanks for offering your input in this thread, I appreciate it!


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[Sauzo]

Yeah, I've been feeding Caesar every 4-5 days. Figure i'll do that until hes a year old, then probably stretch it out. I was told the first 2 years is when retics benefit the most from good feedings. After 2 years, then maintenance feeding is good. Not sure if its accurate. Maybe Cody can chime in on it. I do know Caesar is pretty darn mellow now and actually seems to enjoy watching me at night by sitting on his shelf or half on top of a hide lol. After about 4-5 days, he starts cruising around, i'm assuming looking for food.

[reptileexperts]

Offer extra but don't over do it. Sounds like you're on the right track. My bet is on lowering the temps did more than food.


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[AbsoluteApril]

Other thing you can do is a little more proactive - get a two liter bottle and put some warm water in it and seal it tighter. Put the bottle in the enclosure. They like to push. So this is giving them something else to push around. Cage too small for that? use a 1 liter or 20 ounce bottle. This can offer them some preoccupation with the pushing and calms them down overtime.

Very novel idea, I will have to give this a try!