Pet Owner vs Breeding

[jmcrook]

I don't think you are being attacked. I think you get called out because you ask questions and ignore the answers and then get defensive. This snake stuff just might not be for you. You are tweaking hard over all this stuff. You want a pet that you will show you affection and love you back. That ain't a ball python. You post all this outrageous stuff to the point where it looks like you are trolling for attention. This place is no different than any other animal based message board. You have your hardcore members that have been doing it for years that see the noobs come and go. Asking the same questions day in and day out. It probably gets old. But they still offer help and advice and then you come along and take a dump in their front yard because the snake whisperer told you they were all wrong. You should take some of the advice given to you. The "attacks" would probably stop.

^^^THIS^^^


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[KingWheatley]

Like you said, there isn't one specific way to care for any animal. I think it all comes down to experience; and whatever information you wish to take from people who share their experiences is dependent on you. In the end though, the goal on this forum is to ultimately help each other through these experiences & incorporate it to your own. It's all trial and error. I can tell you care deeply about Wheatley which is great! Don't take anything too personally and use it to learn from others and you'll have a good time on this forum.

A good point... I do take it a lot more personal than I should... I suppose even to the extent that I bite the heads off of people who don't mean to come off as if they are attacking anyone...


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[Jeanne]

I don't think you are being attacked. I think you get called out because you ask questions and ignore the answers and then get defensive. This snake stuff just might not be for you. You are tweaking hard over all this stuff. You want a pet that you will show you affection and love you back. That ain't a ball python. You post all this outrageous stuff to the point where it looks like you are trolling for attention. This place is no different than any other animal based message board. You have your hardcore members that have been doing it for years that see the noobs come and go. Asking the same questions day in and day out. It probably gets old. But they still offer help and advice and then you come along and take a dump in their front yard because the snake whisperer told you they were all wrong. You should take some of the advice given to you. The "attacks" would probably stop.

this^^^^^^

I think you are being overly sensitive a lot of the time and you don't want to take advice that you ask for. Perhaps if you put that on a shelf, you will get different results. But posting rants like this because you feel picked on, isn't likely to get you too many supporters around here. Good Luck to Ya!

[cchardwick]

I'm sure there are lots of ways to take care of a ball python. I started with aspen bedding, it was hard to keep moist, it molded, and the snakes would get it stuck in their mouth when they struck and missed a rodent. So I changed over to paper, that worked great for my mite infection, I thought it was much better than aspen but I couldn't keep the humidity up, I'm sure paper is the cheapest, especially if you can get it for cheap or free. Then I switched over to coconut husk (Reptichip) and I love it on all fronts. However, I still see pro breeders with thousands of tubs using paper and humidifiers to keep the room humidity up. However, with paper I had really bad smells when they went to the bathroom, coconut husk solved that problem completely, and it lasts for months instead of days or weeks. I'm not saying that aspen or paper is any better or worse, I've experienced all three and coconut husk is just better for me.

There are lots of different substrates and lots of different opinions. Really the only way to know which is best is to try them out for a month or two and see if you like them better or worse. I thought aspen was the best and never even considered changing up when I first started, but trying different setups is really helpful, you can then share your successes and challenges. And often times I change my mind LOL. For example, I really love to feed all fresh kill and not live or frozen thawed, its totally safe, immediately available and always the right temperature and my snakes love it, and using CO2 is fast and painless for the rodent. However, taking care of my rodents is a lot of work and if I get burned out I may switch up to all frozen thawed like some of the pro breeders LOL.

I'm convinced there's no right or wrong way as long as your snake feels safe, is kept humid and is eating OK (unless he is fasting LOL).

[Yzmasmom]

Also, a huge part of this is frustration on the huge mix of information.

I've heard everything from 5-14 days for feeding, and once a day (not including after feeding) three times a week, once a week, once a month for handling. One hide. Two hides. Two waters. One water. Red fish. Blue fish. Blah blah blah.

I'm going cross eyed with how much misinformation is mixed into necessity. So much so that I treat EVERYONE who offers me advice of any kind with skepticism and grains of salt.


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If you look on any website for info, you get different answers from each site. Just like you get different answers from each person. When trying to figure out how much and how often to feed Yzma, I asked her breeder and a few people on here via PM as well as making a thread. Then, I took that info and applied it to what works for my snake. Is she losing weight with how I'm feeding? Is she gaining too much? Is it causing periodic fasts? Trial and error. You just have to take all of the info and do what works for your snake. Many people said feeding her a medium rat once a week would cause her to go on fasts and I need to go to either a small rat or a medium every 14 days. Some said as long as it's a medium under a certain weight, it's fine. If she fasts, try every 14 days. I had to take everyone's opinions and think about them and then see what worked for Yzma. And, maybe it won't work in future. Things change.
Same for handling.... it makes sense that you woukdnt want to stress them, so, you go by how tour snak reacts. Some may only tolerate a few times a week and some, every day.
It makes sense to have a hut on each side of the tank, but maybe, for some snakes, one hide works. But I digress - my point is, ask 10 people and get 10 answers. None are necessarily wrong or better. Owning an animal means we learn constantly, even the experts. We research, learn, apply and help others where we can. If our answers differ from someone else's, that's ok, as long as something isn't being done that can hurt the animal.

[redshepherd]

Like most people said, there isn't ONE CORRECT ENCLOSURE to care for a ball python. If you live in Thailand, your setup will have to be different from if you live in Arizona. If you want to keep your ball python in a basic tub setup, fine, and if you want to keep your ball python in a larger enclosure, a bioactive terrarium, a fancy tub setup, a fancy glass setup, fine. You see a lot of different opinions on setup details, because there's no one right answer.

Really it all comes down to a few certain things- humidity higher than 50%, correct ambient temps, correct hot spot temps, a thermostat, and accurate equipment to measure these things. And enough hides for each individual ball python to feel secure enough to eat consistently (unless they're already adults and fasting). And sometimes, things in the enclosure will need to be tinkered around with to get these specs for an individual happy ball python. That's really all there is to it. Some balls are shy, some balls are more comfortable with their surroundings, some are young and scared, some are older, and that affects what the "right" enclosure should be for each one.

You mentioned getting bashed for using aspen- that would make sense if you were having humidity problems.. I use aspen, because where I live, humidity is on the higher end, so I don't need to worry about it. But if I were using aspen and my humidity was at 40% and I refused to switch to a different substrate, of course I'd get bashed.

There ARE some groups out there (not sure if you're in any of those, but just leave them) that would bash you for using a glass tank/aspen/heat lamp even when nothing's going wrong, but this isn't one of them. I've been in a few snake groups, and this is one of the most open-minded and easygoing I've ever seen, which is why I stick around.

[voodoolamb]

But what if you just want to own a ball python as a pet? Does your ball python really care if he has aspen bedding vs paper bedding? Or if his hide is a certain texture? Or if he has an all white interior? Or things to climb on?

This may come as a surprise, but no. Your ball python DOESN'T CARE what bedding he has, what shape of hide he has, OR what his surroundings look like. IF there are no birds, no claws, no predators... If your snake is being fed properly... If things are comfortable for him (in other words, meeting the criteria in the care sheet provided HERE)... If you are doing your job as far as your ball python's basic needs, and he is not stressed or showing signs of stress (such as fasting.) Then YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY 100% FINE.

Wrong.

Of course your Ball Python is going to "care" because the choices you make in your enclosure are going to effect its hygiene, temperature/humidity, security and safety.

Have you put any time into researching what these animals do in the wild? Are you aware they are mostly nocturnal ground dwelling animals? Putting a nocturnal animal into an all white enclosure is practically abusive. White reflects too much ambient light.

There are multiple ways to care for snakes but there certainly are RIGHT ways and WRONG ways.

For the record - my snakes are pets. 3 are in tubs. 1 is in a display tank. 1 never gets handled. 2 get handled occasionally like once or twice a month and the last one gets handled a few times a week and is allowed to free range a bit in the snake room.

Not all breeders are large scale, multi rack operations. Many pet owners breed their pets too. Many of the large scale people consider all their snakes to be pets. There's more over lap than you think.

[Neal]

Wrong.

Of course your Ball Python is going to "care" because the choices you make in your enclosure are going to effect its hygiene, temperature/humidity, security and safety.

Have you put any time into researching what these animals do in the wild? Are you aware they are mostly nocturnal ground dwelling animals? Putting a nocturnal animal into an all white enclosure is practically abusive. White reflects too much ambient light.

There are multiple ways to care for snakes but there certainly are RIGHT ways and WRONG ways.

For the record - my snakes are pets. 3 are in tubs. 1 is in a display tank. 1 never gets handled. 2 get handled occasionally like once or twice a month and the last one gets handled a few times a week and is allowed to free range a bit in the snake room.

Not all breeders are large scale, multi rack operations. Many pet owners breed their pets too. Many of the large scale people consider all their snakes to be pets. There's more over lap than you think.

I wouldn't pay too much mind to them voodoo. You'd think they're a pro who knows more than an all of us combined. The snake whisperer.

[Neal]

Do you want to breed a snake? Or do you want to own a Ball Python as a pet to love and care for?

There are very PARTICULAR things to follow if you want to breed your snakes. Certain heat levels can sterilize your Ball Python, for example. And if you are intending on breeding, chances are you are intending on owning more than one snake. For this particular reason, having the cheapest and easiest options available are important.

Much like breeding dogs, where you would house your dogs in a kennel that is at least a certain volume of space, with a specific dog food and in a specific amount. And of course, specific things to decrease stress and increase the livelihood of both parents and offspring. I'm sure there are plenty of areas and people, knowledgeable due to many years of breeding, who could direct you in such a way that would aid you. People like Deborah, for high example.

But what if you just want to own a ball python as a pet? Does your ball python really care if he has aspen bedding vs paper bedding? Or if his hide is a certain texture? Or if he has an all white interior? Or things to climb on?

This may come as a surprise, but no. Your ball python DOESN'T CARE what bedding he has, what shape of hide he has, OR what his surroundings look like. IF there are no birds, no claws, no predators... If your snake is being fed properly... If things are comfortable for him (in other words, meeting the criteria in the care sheet provided HERE)... If you are doing your job as far as your ball python's basic needs, and he is not stressed or showing signs of stress (such as fasting.) Then YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY 100% FINE.

You really should stop trying to give advice until you actually have experience and knowledge to back up what you say, period. Your snake apparently tells you when it's hungry. You introduce your snake to your pet what was it, dog or cat and that was nearly a disaster. Luckily by the grace of God nothing was seriously hurt. Then you do things you think are right instead of using the search function or wait for a reply. Enough is enough.

[KingWheatley]

Because information with proper sources, one not fueled with emotion/assumptions, is always what I'm looking for. I will ALWAYS provide counter examples so that they will be considered and cleared up.


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Again.


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