Newbie With Sick Snakes - Really long but important!

[Isabeau]

Hoping I'm posting in the correct forum. This afternoon I impulse rescued a trio of snakes off of the free section of Craigslist. I'm told it's a 2.1 group. The ad stated clearly that the animals had mites. I was prepared for dealing with mites as I had an outbreak when I used to keep corns so many years ago. Well, guess what? Mites are really the least of my problems right now. So, I would like to state a few things very clearly. First, while I do love to look at BPs, they are not my favorite species of snake. I find them finicky and fragile. That being said, I wanted to make sure these particular animals were taken by someone who either knew what they were doing or could educate herself properly to care for them. I'd be in the latter group. Second, I have a vet appointment for Tuesday. It was the soonest I could get in. The next closest exotic vet is roughly four and a half hours away and I simply do not have the money to fill up my gas tank twice, especially right before payday. So, Tuesday is the soonest anything can be done vet-wise. Lastly, I am aware that the current setup is no ideal. Payday is Friday and I should have my check available by Saturday, so I'll be getting more appropriate setups then. Possibly on Monday.

Now, for the problems. These poor snakes are covered with hundreds, if not thousands of mites. I honestly didn't try to decide which black specks were mites and which were poo. The two larger snakes, one supposedly female, drank water in the tub for almost 30 minutes. I was half paranoid that they'd drowned themselves. The third, a little guy did not drink. I'll get to him in a minute. So, the snakes were dehydrated and covered in mites. I was also told these guys hadn't been fed in at least a month. They have been and are currently in a "15" gallon. It looks like a 10 to me, but I haven't measured. They've been kept on Sani-chips or similar. Now of the individual problems.

The claimed female is supposedly a yellow bellied spider. She's a good size but seems thin to me. Not skeletal, but like old man arms. You know there's muscle there but it's flabby. If that makes any sense. I'm going on the assumption that she has been mated. No proof. I did not check her for eggs. I'm just assuming because she is supposed to be a she and is housed with two males. I didn't check her over too closely beyond this but I did not immediately notice any other additional health problems.

The larger male is a normal. In addition to the mites and dehydration, there are some major problems. He is in the process of shedding. It's coming off in patches and pieces. I was able to rub some but not all of the shed off during the soak. I didn't try to force it. It looks like there may be a few layers of retained eye caps. I think. It's so difficult to tell at this point. The snake also has what looks like mouth rot. It could be a ton of retain shed in the mouth area. At this point in my check-over, he was getting really grumpy with me so I didn't check closer. I also noticed what sounds like an URI, from what I remember it sounding like years back with my corns. He's alert and moderately active, so I think he may recover just fine.

The third and smallest snake, a supposed spinner spider, is who's really worrying me. As I said, he did not drink. I didn't get as many mites off of him as the other two because... he seems to be suffering from neurological issues. He is doing the crocodile death roll. He is unable to completely keep his head level and I was really worried about him drowning during the soak. It's not quite star-gazer if I'm remembering correctly. The old owner said he just started this behavior. I'm not sure exactly what "just started" is. Could be today; could be this week. I did attempt to level the snake out by gently restraining him on his "neck" area and rotating him as needed to keep his head at the right angle. I was hoping he'd drink but it didn't happen. I'm hoping that better care will lead to this problem resolving itself. I'm really hoping that it's caused by the mites and he's anemic or something. I fully expect him to die, but I'm hoping it won't happen. He is also in the process of shedding. I didn't know until he was soaking. Hopefully it will all come off in just a piece or two. Otherwise, I have not noticed any other problems.

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So, what can I do to make these snakes more comfortable until Tuesday? I'm all ready working on getting the heat up a little warmer. I'm aiming for 90°F I think, based on research. I'd like to do daily soaks if it won't harm the snakes in order to kill off more of the mites. Because of the problems with URI, mouth rot, and the spinning, I'm not eager to try anything toxic to treat the mites until I get them to the vet. Can I safely soak them for 20-30 minutes a day to help control the mites? I've tossed the Sani-chips and have washed the tank with soap and hot water. I have switched to paper towels. I am planning on washing the tank every single day to help control the mite population. I'm picking up bleach tomorrow.

I'll be slowly attempting to get the retained sheds off of the normal. As it will let me, of course. I will also try to get a better look at his mouth. Other than the higher temperature, what can I do to make breathing easier for the poor guy? Is there anything I can do for my spinning guy to make his life a little easier? I assuming that feeding any of them at this point is not recommended. Is there anything else I should or shouldn't do?

[EDR]

Well right out the gate i'm glad your trying to rescue these poor ball pythons. On one end i'm glad your taking them in but on the other i get kinda angered reading about neglect or abuse cases like these. It bugs me to think a lot of these people are probably loved or respected and they threat other living things this way. Now to the ball pythons i'm under the impression that their together in one tank which ain't good BUT i do understand your waiting for money so i guess it'll have to do for now. I'm not sure if you should keep bathing and handling them every day cause it could really stress them out to where your doing more harm then good. I would get some prevent a mite or similar product and threat the tank til you go to the vet and you get money to separate them. You also say you don't want to do anything toxic pam isn't that bad and there are natural alternatives also someone else is gonna have to tell what they are cause i use pam though luckily i haven't needed it for the last two years thankfully. The yb spider and normal male don't seem way bad but also in certain need of attention. Now the third is a supposed spinner if true spider could be behind the neuro issues but this sounds real bad. At this point i wouldn't waste my time believing anything this previous owner says about how any of these problems occurred especially stating the poor spinner just started this behavior. Back to trying to help them feel more comfortable. I suppose give them water a couple hides or places to hide. 90 degrees seems like an ok base temp. I'm guessing you don't have a thermostat gonna need one of those. When you get money i'd get some sterilite tubes. Go online or wall mart. The wall mart by me had a pretty decent selection of sizes. Get whats appropriate for there sizes. Then i'd get some 3 and or 6 inch heat tape from likely a site reptile basics is one of many. Get the thermostat hook up the heat tape and use it for all the tubes. Of course that's if you have the room or try to improvise something. Cause of the mites paper or paper towls are probably best to lay in the tubes or your current tank. I guess for now just keep an eye on them for any changes in behavior stuff like that till the vet. I'm sure the vet and other posters are and will fill you in more. I hope my suggestions help you in a good direction. Wishing for the best for all three of these ball pythons.

[bcr229]

When soaking add just a tiny drop of mild dish soap to the water. That will reduce the surface tension of the water so the mites drown instead of floating or hiding under the snake's scales.

I found this document very helpful when treating mites: http://www.denardo.lab.asu.edu/publi...snakemites.pdf
One thing I noted is that heat kills mites and mite eggs: 55*C (131*F) for five seconds will do it. If your tank is small enough, put it in the oven and heat it to 130*F. The plastic on it has a much higher melting point than that. You could also fill it with really hot water but that can crack the glass if the temperature changes too quickly.

[JodanOrNoDan]

Everybody is giving you good advice. They sooner the animals are isolated the better. The spinner is not "sick". If he is truly that morph he contains the spider gene. These quys have problems with equilibrium. It is "normal" to some extent. They tend to express this behavior when stressed. Get him in the proper environment preferably dark with a couple hides and he will calm down.

[Isabeau]

I did forget some information it seems. Sorry about that. I will try to get pictures and video today if I can. I do have an Sterilite that I am currently using for hornworms that seem like they'll never morph. They can go into the moth cage sooner I guess. Sadly, I'm in the opinion that snakes are more important than hornworms today so if I lose the hornworms in the move, that's better than the loss of the little snake. He's got to be stressed out from having these giant snakes sliding all over him. The Sterilite isn't huge, but it is at least as long as he is. I'll try to get video of his movements. I had a corn snake many years ago who moved like he does. Thing had a seizure and died. It was horrible and yet, interesting.

Sometimes, living in the country is just sucky. I know I moved out here on purpose, but driving hours and hours is sometimes really inconvenient.


EDR, I do understand what you mean on the neglect and abuse. Full disclosure here. Several years ago, before I knew how to drive but when I was old enough to live on my own, I had a whole bunch of different animals. Corn snakes, hedgehogs, turtles, guinea pigs, cats, dog, rabbits, and a few other critters. All of my neighbors knew and one day I came home after being gone all day. I found a cardboard shoe box on my doorstep, opened it up and found five very sick lizards. I can't remember now if it was two or three bearded dragons or if there were more leopard geckos. They were near death. I begged one of my friends to drive me the two hours to the reptile rescue. Things went bad for me then. Because I couldn't prove that they hadn't been in my possession before they got sick, I was reported for animal cruelty and charged. I ended up with a criminal record because someone didn't care enough to take their animals to care for them properly. I was forced to take the blame instead. Now, I can't adopt from shelters, work at any pet shop, or get a job anywhere that relates to animals. It's been many years but I still get angry because of some jerk. I think most of the lizards ended up having to be put down. Sigh... sometimes being a nice and good person bites ya right in the backside. But anyway, despite what my criminal record now says, I truly do love all animals. Except for bed bugs. Those I will murder without remorse.

[EDR]

So your putting the spinner in a separate tub? If so good its a start. Sorry to hear about your position being in the middle of now where. I hope you have no problems getting things online cause your probably gonna need to.

Also that story sounds really unfortunate sorry to hear that. I'm not defending those idiots that don't know how to take care of the bearded dragons and leopard geckos but i don't think they were trying to get you in trouble or anything. They probably thought your an animal person so they went hey lets give them her. What state do you live in? cause that sounds crazy. I mean you got slammed and charged for bringing in the lizards that you were trying to help ...again that's crazy. By the sounds of it at least you can still get a job but just not animal related. That would suck for me cause i think about trying to work for Brookfield zoo someday. It ain't very far from where i live and like to think i'd look at working there as more then just a job i do for money especially if i get to help take care of the reptiles.

[Isabeau]

I'm in Colorado but I live pretty close to the Colorado-New Mexico border. When I was little, I always said I wanted to work for the Denver Zoo. My mother always told me it was a bad idea because I'd somehow manage to come home with a wolf pup in my pocket. She was probably right. Lol

I didn't want to double post yesterday, but I did manage to take a video. I hope it links properly. This video is from yesterday during soak time. Today my brain started working and I realized that I could get the little guy to ball up and then I could hold him under water while supporting his head above water and it would be more successful on drowning mites than watching him struggle. I feel stupid and badly for not realizing this two days ago. He's a very tolerant snake and seems to be starting to trust me, despite my lack of intelligence the past two days. He is currently in a 12 qt tub I was using for my hornworms (which I like to grow out into moths occasionally because they are really cool bugs). He almost moves normally now. It just seems likes he's on a constant tilt. You can definitely tell there's something wrong with him.

I still can't get him to drink. I don't want to put a water bowl in there unsupervised so I offer for half an hour but he just doesn't seem interested. The other two, who are still sharing the cage they came in, drink for a few minutes and then go back to pretending to tolerate each other. I didn't soak the bigger two today as I've gotten most of the mites off and figure doing it every other day until we get to the vet will work. I probably won't soak the little guy tomorrow now that I'm only seeing 100-200 come off of him. I'll probably soak him on Monday. He really is a sweet little guy. Unlike the Normal who seems to be trying to indicate that he's hungry. He's been hissing at me all day and half of yesterday. He does have mouth rot on both sides. All yellow and pus-filled. The other two are A-okay otherwise.

Anywho, here's pictures and video, hopefully. Lol

[bcr229]

Honestly it looks like stressed spider-gene derpage. I have a spinner that does the same thing when she gets fed or upset.

[Isabeau]

I hope so. Maybe I'll name him Derp. Seems like a good name for such a sad little snake. Do all spiders have this problem?

[EDR]

Do all spiders have this problem?

Pretty much just it varies from snake to snake. I thought it was gonna be worse but he didn't seem THAT bad. My killer bee girl is my biggest bp i have and her spider wobble ain't as bad as this little guy. But as long as he can eat on his own i wouldn't consider it a problem for the time being anyway. Also derp seems like a cute name or nickname at least.

For little derp i think you can just leave the water bowl in his tub. If it ain't really deep i'm sure he'll be alright also when things are quit at night or something he might just take a drink. The soaking is gotta really help in getting their stuck skin off so that should solve that problem. So the neuro issues are just kinda bad, nothing to serious with the yb spider so the only real problem i see is the mouth rot on the normal. Well ok it don't seem as bad as i first thought and think your doing a pretty decent to good job getting them ready for the vet. The poor normal really needs it. So after the vet and they get separated are you gonna try to feed them i mean of course your gonna try to feed them but do you have a game plan for that? Not pressuring you just asking.

That's cool to know you live in Colorado. We took a family road trip out west back in the mid 90's and went to yellow stone its an amazing place.