Where to draw the line ...

[Lady mkrj58]

That hurt my heart.

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[JodanOrNoDan]

I am probably going to get laughed right out of the place for this one but after watching that vid I can't think of a better animal to try this experiment on. Both of my spiders were train wrecks when i got them. Not quite as bad as the videos but pretty bad. A close friend of mine that is a doctor(not a vet) was over at the house and I had my first spider out and he observed the behavior. We examined my animals and what was noticed across my collection when comparing snakes at less than a year old the spiders had horrible muscle tone. They felt soft especially in the first third of the body compared to other snakes. I gave it some thought and I began exercising the spiders for about a half hour every other day. This basically consisted of letting them crawl around on the floor and handling them in a fashion that made them support themselves with the last third of their body. As time went on the uncontrolled body motions reduced and the animals muscle tone improved. Every once in awhile there is a slight relapse, but it is nothing like it was in the beginning. I have no doubt that the spiders have a neurological problem however making them exercise seemed to improve their condition. This is by no means a scientific experiment. I am only making observations at this point. Next year I should have more spiders to work with. If you have the time please give this a shot and let me know if there is any change in the animal's behavior. In any case please do not put it down yet. I would rather buy the animal from you than to see that happen.

[Lady mkrj58]

Not laughing I think it's a good Idea in low level stress area's

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[bcr229]

I am probably going to get laughed right out of the place for this one but after watching that vid I can't think of a better animal to try this experiment on. Both of my spiders were train wrecks when i got them. Not quite as bad as the videos but pretty bad. A close friend of mine that is a doctor(not a vet) was over at the house and I had my first spider out and he observed the behavior. We examined my animals and what was noticed across my collection when comparing snakes at less than a year old the spiders had horrible muscle tone. They felt soft especially in the first third of the body compared to other snakes. I gave it some thought and I began exercising the spiders for about a half hour every other day. This basically consisted of letting them crawl around on the floor and handling them in a fashion that made them support themselves with the last third of their body. As time went on the uncontrolled body motions reduced and the animals muscle tone improved. Every once in awhile there is a slight relapse, but it is nothing like it was in the beginning. I have no doubt that the spiders have a neurological problem however making them exercise seemed to improve their condition. This is by no means a scientific experiment. I am only making observations at this point. Next year I should have more spiders to work with. If you have the time please give this a shot and let me know if there is any change in the animal's behavior. In any case please do not put it down yet. I would rather buy the animal from you than to see that happen.

That's interesting. I have a spinner that didn't exhibit much wobble as a youngster, but she was in a fairly large tank for the first year of her life (because I got her when I was just starting out, so... tanks...) and she was rather active. Eventually she was moved to a 41-qt tub but since she was still fairly small I think she gave herself a good bit of exercise. It's only in the last year that she's really shown any wobble when stressed or excited, and now I wonder if lack of exercise has something to do with it.

[T_Sauer]

I am probably going to get laughed right out of the place for this one but after watching that vid I can't think of a better animal to try this experiment on. Both of my spiders were train wrecks when i got them. Not quite as bad as the videos but pretty bad. A close friend of mine that is a doctor(not a vet) was over at the house and I had my first spider out and he observed the behavior. We examined my animals and what was noticed across my collection when comparing snakes at less than a year old the spiders had horrible muscle tone. They felt soft especially in the first third of the body compared to other snakes. I gave it some thought and I began exercising the spiders for about a half hour every other day. This basically consisted of letting them crawl around on the floor and handling them in a fashion that made them support themselves with the last third of their body. As time went on the uncontrolled body motions reduced and the animals muscle tone improved. Every once in awhile there is a slight relapse, but it is nothing like it was in the beginning. I have no doubt that the spiders have a neurological problem however making them exercise seemed to improve their condition. This is by no means a scientific experiment. I am only making observations at this point. Next year I should have more spiders to work with. If you have the time please give this a shot and let me know if there is any change in the animal's behavior. In any case please do not put it down yet. I would rather buy the animal from you than to see that happen.

This is a very interesting concept ..... Tomorrow is feeding day for that lil feller and clutchmates, however on the 12th bumblebee therapy begins

[JodanOrNoDan]

This is a very interesting concept ..... Tomorrow is feeding day for that lil feller and clutchmates, however on the 12th bumblebee therapy begins

Thank you and good luck. Please let me know how it goes.

[Coluber42]

Wow. That was hard to watch.
I wouldn't put that snake down if it was able to feed and basically function, but I would question the ethics of breeding the spider gene knowing that the wobble is part and parcel of it. I know other morphs have their issues, like how super lessers sometimes have bug eyes. But it doesn't seem like the bug eyes really affect the snake's quality of life; it just looks goofy (correct me if I'm wrong, though). That might also be a reason to avoid producing the super form, but not a reason to avoid breeding lessers at all if only one copy of the gene doesn't produce that defect.
It would be very hard to make the case that a severe wobble like in the video doesn't affect the snake's quality of life. Who knows how much the snake really is or isn't suffering when that happens; maybe it's frustrating, maybe it's terrifying, maybe it's neither. But I doubt it's pleasant. OK, some spiders barely wobble at all and there are lots of spectacular morphs that have that gene, but knowingly propagating a genetic issue like that is not something I would do.

All that said, I'd be really interested to know how your "exercise program" works out! I think it's completely plausible for exercise to help mitigate that condition, whether by improving balance/equilibrium, improving muscular control/coordination, developing and reinforcing a wider variety of pathways for motor control, or just increased strength providing better stability. Like occupational therapy for snakes!

[Devenco]

I am probably going to get laughed right out of the place for this one but after watching that vid I can't think of a better animal to try this experiment on. Both of my spiders were train wrecks when i got them. Not quite as bad as the videos but pretty bad. A close friend of mine that is a doctor(not a vet) was over at the house and I had my first spider out and he observed the behavior. We examined my animals and what was noticed across my collection when comparing snakes at less than a year old the spiders had horrible muscle tone. They felt soft especially in the first third of the body compared to other snakes. I gave it some thought and I began exercising the spiders for about a half hour every other day. This basically consisted of letting them crawl around on the floor and handling them in a fashion that made them support themselves with the last third of their body. As time went on the uncontrolled body motions reduced and the animals muscle tone improved. Every once in awhile there is a slight relapse, but it is nothing like it was in the beginning. I have no doubt that the spiders have a neurological problem however making them exercise seemed to improve their condition. This is by no means a scientific experiment. I am only making observations at this point. Next year I should have more spiders to work with. If you have the time please give this a shot and let me know if there is any change in the animal's behavior. In any case please do not put it down yet. I would rather buy the animal from you than to see that happen.

Interesting theory, wonder how it will work on this b.b. , also will keep this in mind for my spiders

Generally my pewter bee gets it sometimes while feeding that he just goes wobble mode, or when he finds something exciting (like right before he darts off out of his tub , i always know when he is up to something!)

[JodanOrNoDan]

Thanks everybody. Any data or experiences with these guys would be appreciated. The number of spiders I have is just too small at this point to do a controlled experiment.

[Coluber42]

It would be challenging to conduct an experiment with any kind of rigor, but maybe you could improve on a sample size of one by recruiting other forum members with spiders and actually do a randomized experiment? Like, assemble a list of snakes belonging to game forum members, randomly assign them to either get Snake Occupational Therapy or to just get handled for the same amount of time (and maybe a third group without any change, if there were enough volunteers?), but without the OT aspect. Someone would have to come up with a rubric for evaluating the severity of the wobble, and a specific procedure for the OT. It wouldn't hold up to peer review or anything, but if the OT really is effective, there should be at least some clear evidence.