2 or more related morphs

[Mada]

I am trying to get the genes needed to get a specific look. but i am running into a lack of some of the morphs. some i have talked to have told me that you can get another morph to replace a single morph. the case is i want to make a snake that has sugar and they told me i could use calico to get the same effect. now i know that every snake even when same morph looks different so i can never have the exact same snake i have seen online with out buying that exact one but is this theory true.

so far i have heard this about all the hit BEL's, cinni's and black pastels, and a few others.

what i am asking is basically a list of ones that are interchange able to get almost the same exact babies in the end and if i listed one that isn't interchangeable then please tell me so i will know in the future.

[SmoothScales]

I'm not sure, but you may be talking about a complex list?

http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php

[Cydonia]

I think they mean two identical genes with different names. Like Butter and Lesser, Sugar and Calico, ect ect ect.

[lunasjy]

Sugar and calico are the same gene just two different people ended up calling them two different names. Same thing with Butter/Lesser, and still debatable, banana and coral glow, and so on.

[Mada]

what i am hoping to get the genes for is the phantom potion sugar yellow belly. i love the purple (which i bet will fade but still wow). however when talking to some one he said i could use calico's i wanted to talk to the guy who is credited with the morph combo but his web page on world of ball pythons comes up as some unregistered domain.

i was guessing that any of the BEL's could be used but the sugar and calico thing i didn't know about.

the owal list helps but i don't see how phantoms are in the BEL list when a super phantom is in my eyes far from white. but then the genes of these critters are amazingly complex to me. i can get how you get genes in people but these things have as many genes in them as there are shades of human skin tone if not more.

[Slowcountry Balls]

what i am hoping to get the genes for is the phantom potion sugar yellow belly. i love the purple (which i bet will fade but still wow). however when talking to some one he said i could use calico's i wanted to talk to the guy who is credited with the morph combo but his web page on world of ball pythons comes up as some unregistered domain.

i was guessing that any of the BEL's could be used but the sugar and calico thing i didn't know about.

the owal list helps but i don't see how phantoms are in the BEL list when a super phantom is in my eyes far from white. but then the genes of these critters are amazingly complex to me. i can get how you get genes in people but these things have as many genes in them as there are shades of human skin tone if not more.

First, Phantom is in the BEL complex because it is a gene that resides at the same point on the DNA strand as the other BEL genes. This is proven when you breed a Purple Passion (Phantom Mojave) to a normal and all the babies are Phantoms or Mojaves (no normals and no Purple Passions, proving that the Mojave gene and Phantom gene reside at the same location on the DNA strand). Each gene in the BEL complex has varying degrees of expression of "whiteness" in the super (homozygous) form. Bamboo is probably the strongest (closest to pure white), while Mystic/Phantom is probably the weakest (expresses the most pattern and color).

So far, to the best of my knowledge, the only 2 interchangeable gene pairs in the BEL complex are Butter/Lesser and Mystic/Phantom.

There is some debate about different lines of a single gene verses two, very similarly behaving genes when it comes to Calico and Sugar. Some will say that the two genes are the same gene, but different lines (like Butter and Lesser), and some say that they are two different genes that often behave very similar (like Black Pastel and Cinnamon). There are a few threads out there on this topic, and Mike Wilbanks has posted his opinion on this topic in a blog.

You'll have to read through those threads and blogs to get enough information for you to make your own decision in regards to whether or not Calico and Sugar are interchangeable.

[paulh]

There are mimic genes that are located at different places in the DNA. Mimics produce a similar effect from different causes. Examples include anerythristic and charcoal in corn snakes (both prevent formation of red pigment) and Kahl albino and Sharp albino in boa constrictors (both prevent formation of black pigment).

The question is whether calico is an acceptable replacement for sugar. I don't know the answer. But it is possible to do a thought experiment. Make a list of how sugar differs from normal, how calico differs from normal, and how phantom potion sugar yellow belly differs from phantom potion yellow belly. Based on this information, you may be able to make a decision.

Good luck.

[Mada]

well with a lot more reading and youtube videos absorbed i at least now know i don't need to buy a phantom potion as that cant pass both genes on to its young due to being ALS. as far as the sugar and calico i still am looking at morphs that have both and seeing what they do to the other genes. such as yellow belly calico and yellow belly sugar etc.

i just wish i could contact the breeder who got the first one and get pictures of the clutch mates.

[OhhWatALoser]

cant pass both genes on to its young due to being ALS.

Let me save you some future headache, ALS is a terrible term made up by a guy with a lot of power and I really have no desire to see catch on. Its definition includes a term (super) that doesn't have a standardized definition itself. Not to mention ALS already stands for something well known, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, aka that thing everyone dumped ice water on their head for.

Just call them allelic or part of the same complex.

i just wish i could contact the breeder who got the first one and get pictures of the clutch mates.

This would show you the results of one generation and not really what all the possible variation of the gene are. Google "sugar ball python" and "calico ball python" to see what the genes are capable of and make up your mind from there. Personally after seeing so many, I wouldn't worry about the label and just pick the nicest looking animal.