Spider morph questions

[Valeria-g87]

Right now I have a normal bp but my favorite are spider morphs. I love the bright hatchling colors but anyway my question is what all spider morphs will keep their bright color into adult age without browning out? And that's on the affordable side. And which ones is it you can breed with a normal and never get normals?

[PitOnTheProwl]

Anything bred to a normal stands a chance of getting a normal.
There are so many spider combos out there.......
I like the Lesser Bee.

[FranklinMorphs]

The traditional Bumble Bee which is Pastel Spider is lighter, and stays lighter with age. A FireBee (Fire, Pastel, Spider) isn't much lighter at birth, but from what I've seen will stay a bit lighter with age than a Standard Bee will. As with any morph, there are good, great and bad examples, which matter just as much as the gene itself in my opinion.

[Daigga]

I second a lesser bee. The color transition from baby to adult goes from a creme and brown to a beautiful golden color. No one has proven out a super spider at this point, so whatever you breed will have the chance of producing babies without the spider gene. You can get a super something + spider, like a killer bee (super pastel spider) that won't have any normal babies (all of a killer bees babies will be at least pastel). Spieds and bumblebee pieds are also pretty cool, since they only have head pattern and not a whole lot of color to brown out anyway, but lesser bees will always be a favorite of mine just because of how regal they look. Mine has a trainwreck wobble and is derpy as can be, so he doesn't exactly act regal, but that's just another thing to love about him.

Here's mine, an adult male, for comparison


And here's them on WOBP so you can see some hatchlings and how the color changes.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/lesser-bee/

[Galaxygirl]

A super pastel spider (Killer Bee) bred to a normal will give you no normals. I also like Lesser Bees, and they're on the cheaper side.

[Valeria-g87]

Great thank you all! I knew about the killer bee not producing any normals but didn't know if that was the only one.. So what makes a super? Is it just pastels?

Most of the pics I've seen of adult bumble bees have been browned out a lot.. They were my first pick since they are so bright as babies lol I'm new to all this but from all the reading I've been doing the derpiness is what made me decide on a spider morph lol

[PitOnTheProwl]

A super pastel spider (Killer Bee) bred to a normal will give you no normals. I also like Lesser Bees, and they're on the cheaper side.

True, I totally wasn't thinking of any supers. Brain Fart

[Daigga]

Great thank you all! I knew about the killer bee not producing any normals but didn't know if that was the only one.. So what makes a super? Is it just pastels?

Most of the pics I've seen of adult bumble bees have been browned out a lot.. They were my first pick since they are so bright as babies lol I'm new to all this but from all the reading I've been doing the derpiness is what made me decide on a spider morph lol

Any codom gene makes a super. Lesser is an example of a codom gene, except the super form is entirely white with blue eyes (it's in a complex of genes that creates blue eyed white snakes, also including mojave, russo, and a handful of others). You can look through WOBP and see some examples of morphs and which ones are dominant, codominant, or recessive.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/

I didn't mention them before, but caliders (spider calico) are also beautiful and unique. kind of like the pieds, they end up with a lot of white and not a whole lot of other color to brown out.

[paulh]

Great thank you all! I knew about the killer bee not producing any normals but didn't know if that was the only one.. So what makes a super? Is it just pastels?

Genes come in pairs, like socks. A super has two copies of a dominant or codominant mutant gene in one of its gene pairs.

All mutant genes are dominant, codominant, or recessive to the corresponding normal gene. A normal gene is the most common gene in a given location in a cell's chromosomes in the snakes in the wild. All genes that are not normal genes are mutant genes.

A recessive mutant gene only produces its abnormal effect on the snake's appearance when there are two copies of the gene in the gene pair.
A dominant mutant gene produces the same abnormal effect on the snake's appearance when there are two copies of the mutant gene in the gene pair and when there is a mutant gene paired with a normal gene.
A codominant mutant gene produces one abnormal effect on the snake's appearance when there are two copies of the mutant gene in the gene pair and a more or less different abnormal appearance when there is a mutant gene paired with a normal gene.

The father gives one gene from each of its gene pairs to each sperm. The mother gives one gene from each of its gene pairs to each egg. When the sperm and egg fuse, the gene pairs are reestablished in the baby.

If one parent is normal, then it has two copies of the normal gene in each gene pair. Every baby gets a normal gene from this normal parent.

If the other parent has two copies of a recessive gene in the gene pair, then it gives that recessive gene to each baby. All the babies have a recessive mutant gene paired with a normal gene. All the babies look normal.

If the other parent has a dominant or codominant mutant gene paired with a normal gene, then half the babies get a mutant gene and half the babies get a normal gene. All the babies with two normal genes look normal. The babies with a dominant or codominant mutant gene paired with a normal gene do not look normal.

If the other parent has two copies of a dominant or codominant gene in the gene pair, then it gives that gene to each baby. All the babies have a dominant or codominant mutant gene paired with a normal gene. None of the babies look normal.

You do not want normal babies from a mating that has one normal parent. The only way to do that is to have two dominant or codominant genes in one of the other parent's gene pairs.

Clear as mud?

As Daigga wrote, go to the World of Ball Pythons morph page (http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/). Under the Filters menu at the left side of the page, click on buttons to give an alphabetic list showing the basic morphs. Click on each one and make a list of the ones that are marked either dominant or codominant. You can use the super of any of them. There are only 272 to check, so it shouldn't take long.