Looking for a qualified vet....

[BlueMoonExotics]

Looking for a recommendation on a veterinarian who definitely has a lot of experience with ball pythons in the Lehigh Acres / Fort Myers FL area. I have a girl who is at a vets office right now but if this doesn't go well then I would like to have a second opinion from someone I know is good. Right now he said it's basically like trying to figure out a puzzle. I figured there might be someone on here close enough to me that has had luck with one.

She is being looked at for a mass/swelling in her head and throat. I've only had her since about mid September and she was eating well for her first few meals then suddenly stopped for her last feeding (attempted the 13th). Since then I thought she was looking a little "puffy" in the head area but didn't think much of it since she is a Sub-Saharan/Volta ball python and they tend to have bigger heads. This morning I checked on her and I could definitely tell something was wrong as her whole head and one side of her lips looked swollen so I took her in today and he seems to think its a tumor. He showed me a pinkish looking mass in the back of her throat. He's going to do a radiograph, antibiotics, biopsy and some other stuff that I don't remember but I haven't gotten a copy of the bill just yet. He wanted to do tube feedings and although I don't usually disagree with my vet, I declined as I feel it's only going to stress her out more. She hasn't been without food long enough to make me think this would be a good thing.

I have seen other pics from searches of the same kind of swelling that this looks like and it turned out to be a broken or abscessed tooth that got infected however, I realize I'm not a vet. It just seems odd that a tumor could swell up that quickly? They assured me that it could very well swell like that if it's been there the whole time and maybe shipping or stress could make it pop out. But she went from feeding/looking fine to suddenly refusing food and swollen up like this in a matter of maybe a week. Any help is greatly appreciated.

thermostat set to 93 (temp gun checked for 90 hot spot inside the tub)
newspaper substrate
I feed only f/t rats and although the seller said she was taking larges (she's a big girl), I've only given her mediums

[Stewart_Reptiles]

http://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

[BlueMoonExotics]

http://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

"No records matched your search criteria."

I should also say that the vet I took her to is apparently an exotics vet too. I specifically asked if he had experience with ball pythons and I was told he did. However, I overheard the lady at the desk saying they haven't had a snake in there in years so I'm hopeful that maybe someone has a vet in mind that is known for these types of things.

[JLC]

I can't help with a specific vet recommendation, but you could try calling a local zoo or other similar facility and find out who they use? To specialize that much, you may need to be willing to travel outside your immediate area.

Reading your description of events, the first thing that popped into my head was "abscess". A tooth breaks or tears away and gets infected, or a mouse claw digs a small wound into the side of the mouth or throat and that gets infected. An abscess in a snake is usually a solid or semi-solid mass...not a liquid filled bubble like it would be in a mammal. To the inexperienced eye, it can look like a tumor. NOT that I'm a vet or anything close to that....just that I've read an awful lot of these sorts of stories. The more obvious conclusion would be the place I'd start investigating, rather than jumping to "tumor" right away.

I also agree with your decision to not tube feed. That is only warranted if a great deal of time has passed without food. For a ball python, that could be months, even for a baby. Unless it was already skinny and undernourished to begin with...but even then, one usually treats the disease/injury first....then gets the snake back onto food. Forcing food and medical treatment at the same time is not usually a recipe for success in ball pythons.

Good luck!

[GoingPostal]

I had to find a reptile vet recently and all the online listings for them only bring up vets 5-6 hours away from me. Calling around to various vets got me several suggestions including the one we ended up using. Or is there a herp society or rescue you could contact and ask who they recommend? Don't know about snakes but I've had tumors pop up pretty suddenly on other animals so seems possible but I understand wanting a second opinion. Hopefully they can get it figured out.

[BlueMoonExotics]

I can't help with a specific vet recommendation, but you could try calling a local zoo or other similar facility and find out who they use? To specialize that much, you may need to be willing to travel outside your immediate area.

Reading your description of events, the first thing that popped into my head was "abscess". A tooth breaks or tears away and gets infected, or a mouse claw digs a small wound into the side of the mouth or throat and that gets infected. An abscess in a snake is usually a solid or semi-solid mass...not a liquid filled bubble like it would be in a mammal. To the inexperienced eye, it can look like a tumor. NOT that I'm a vet or anything close to that....just that I've read an awful lot of these sorts of stories. The more obvious conclusion would be the place I'd start investigating, rather than jumping to "tumor" right away.

I also agree with your decision to not tube feed. That is only warranted if a great deal of time has passed without food. For a ball python, that could be months, even for a baby. Unless it was already skinny and undernourished to begin with...but even then, one usually treats the disease/injury first....then gets the snake back onto food. Forcing food and medical treatment at the same time is not usually a recipe for success in ball pythons.

Good luck!

A zoo might be a good idea, I'm sure any vet they would use would have to have experience with snakes. I agree that I THINK this is a tooth injury of some kind or maybe a scratch from a rat claw catching in the throat that got infected. I'm not a vet but I do read quite a bit on ball pythons and that was what I figured before I went in to the vet's office. I even suggested it to him but when he saw the mass, he seemed to think that wasn't the case. Hopefully they can find something so small and that clear on a radiograph? I'm not sure what will show on there since the puss hardens, it may very well look like a tumor on there as well. He better figure out something after the $500 vet bill we got today. I honestly wouldn't mind that bill if I felt he was going to fix the problem but right now, I almost feel like I'm wasting precious time and I'll most likely have to get another opinion to get her back to normal.

[BlueMoonExotics]

Just to update, I did find a different vet that specializes in exotics exclusively so she has an appointment for Friday afternoon with him. I would have gotten her in today but the vet's office that she is currently at has her sedated for the xrays (which the new vet seemed pretty surprised about) and they want to keep her overnight for observation after sedation.

[BlueMoonExotics]

Figured I would update for anyone who it may help in the future...

When I got her home from the first vet (the next day), her swelling had gone down by quite a bit by the morning of her appointment with the new vet, Dr. Medlin. He said it was most likely from the Amikacin (antibiotic) that the previous vet gave to her so he prescribed Amikacin and also Fortaz (another antibiotic) since she she responded so well. He said it was not mouth rot and it definitely wasn't an RI but that it was most likely some kind of bacterial infection, possibly caused by a rat claw catching as it went down but he couldn't say for sure what caused it. He did say on that visit that it could also possibly be kidney disease but didn't seem to think that is what it was because she didn't have other symptoms of this. Which brings us to today...

The previous vet had done a culture and also a sensitivity test. The results came back and the culture grew Pseudomonas Aeruginosa. The sensitivity test is still pending but should be back on Mon. I let Dr. Medlin know of this and he said that it would make sense as to why the swelling responded so well to the Amikacin injection and for now, the treatment will remain the same (Amikacin and Fortaz). So, in short, a bacterial infection but Dr. Medlin also did blood work which also came back today. He said kidney values are normal so it's not kidney disease which is great news. Most of the values he said were normal. However, there was a type of white blood cell that was "significantly" elevated called Azurophil. He said "We think they play the role of the enforcers who go around "eating" bacteria. They don't always show up to a quick (acute) infection, but they are more likely to show up when there is a chronic infection." This has me a bit worried but he said if she responds well to the antibiotics then he's happy but if it returns then he may need to try something else.

For now, other than being more head shy than what she used to be (I would be too if I was prodded for 4 days) she seems to be on the mend. She will be off feed for a bit while she is getting injections (since it could make it worse on her kidneys) but I expect (and hope) that she will be back to her normal self in no time. These pics were from Friday (the morning of her appointment with Dr. Medlin), after the first injection of Amikacin given by the first vet so the swelling is not nearly as bad as it was but I wasn't thinking about pics when all of this first happened as I was kind of in a panic and stress mode. I wish I could have shown before vs after but you can still see some of the swelling on one side of her head and inside of her mouth. When I saw the first vet, the back of her throat almost looked as if it popped out in a huge pink (almost like human gums) mass which he assumed was the tumor. It now looks more purplish and not nearly as swollen.

[bcr229]

I'm very glad to hear she's on the mend.

Baytril + Fortaz pack quite a 1-2 whallup on bacteria, what one doesn't get the other usually does.

If you don't have any on hand already I'd suggest getting a reptile probiotic such as NutriBAC and dust her feeders with a bit of it when she starts eating again, as the antibiotics will also wreak havoc with her good gut flora.

[BlueMoonExotics]

I have no idea what that is. Is it something I can get over the counter or should I be asking the vet about it?