handling BP more= tamer pet?

[blackpastelball]

Okay folks I want to start a discussion regarding the handling of ball pythons and whether or not more frequent handling over a long period of time would create a tame pet that doesn't get stressed out.

As we all know BP's can get stressed out while being handled and don't necessarily enjoy it. Ball pythons that seem tamer are more tolerant, but again this doesn't mean they enjoy it.

I am wondering if you get a ball python at a young age, and handle it on a regular basis (except for feeding/shedding/etc) if it will eventually enjoy being held and perhaps want to be held/enjoys your company.

Members that have had ball pythons for a number of years I would like to know your thoughts and opinions on this. I am a new ball python owner and have been blessed with a super tame yearling that i got a week ago, I am absolutely hooked on ball pythons now!

Thank you in advance for your responses!

[Eric Alan]

We can go 'round and 'round with this (and we have before), but ultimately it comes down to whether or not they actually have the brain capacity to 1) become tame or tolerant, and 2) enjoy social/human companionship.

My own feelings on this are the best result I can aim for is an animal that doesn't look at me like a Godzilla monster trying to eat them. If they eventually associate me with something non-threatening, and turn-down the defensive behaviors, then that is plenty tame and tolerant in my book. I don't believe that they would ever truly enjoy being scooped out of their nice warm bed to dangle in my arms for an extended period of time. I also don't have any false hopes of having a similar relationship with my BPs that I would have with my dog/cat/etc that truly do enjoy and crave my company. They're simply worlds apart in that regard.

On a completely different note - WELCOME TO THE SITE AND WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION!

Best regards,
Eric

[Mr. Misha]

I think as Ball Pythons grow to be older, they mellow out since they realize people arent a threat to them. With that said, I don't believe they have the mental capacity to enjoy hanging out.

In regards to stressed Ball Pythons, I don't think that they're as fragile as people make them out to be.

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[Lizardlicks]

All individuals within a species can be so much different in personality from each other to boot, I don't know if we'll ever have an answer even when collecting thousands of anecdotes and observations. I'll just throw in mine and you can make of it what you will.

Both my girls are very tolerant of handling. I've tried to handle them both at least once a week, barring their initial introduction week where they were settling in and anytime they're in shed. They rarely display any defensive behaviors; Strudel, who started out as the more shy one, now appears to actively seek time out of her tub to explore and interact. I don't think she's balled up on me since the first couple of weeks of having her, and she's never hissed, struck, or displayed any other signs of stress. Serket will ball briefly if you wake her for interaction, but quickly comes out into explore mode in less than a minute. Both snakes continue to have a voracious appetite and feeding response, which is the best outcome you could hope for in a BP really.

Additionally, they both started out very headshy, but I've been getting them slowly desensitized to it. I personally feel this is in the best interest of both snakes and people. If I or a vet need to administer oral medication or inspect the head/mouth area for any reason, I want them to associate it with as little stress as possible.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

BP are one of the species that does not require to be held on a regular basis to be handleable by anyone, however over handling can cause issues such as stress.

The key is to know your animal.

[nightrainfalls]

do not ever seem to look forward to being held. They often don't seem to mind it. On the other hand, if I get near my BCI's Cage, he is right there waiting to come out. He usually doesn't want to go back in. As soon as the lid is off, of his cage, he is crawling up my arm.

Ball pythons are very hide oriented, so if you want one to be comfortable being held, make sure the snake is covered with a hand towel or something similar. They seem to be most comfortable being held, when they can curl up under something with just their head hanging out. I usually drape a hand towel over my left arm, and let my BP Delphi crawl around under it. She also seems to enjoy sitting in the collar of my shirt, with just her head peaking out. She will curl up behind my neck and stay like that for many hours. BP's seem hard wired to want their body covered. Keep the body covered and you snake will be more comfortable being held.

David

[blackpastelball]

Thank you for your prompt response! I didn't think about their mental capacity and whether or not they would be capable of such a relationship. All I know is I enjoy his company very much! They are such docile curious creatures!

[Aercadia]

One thing that has really helped me, most especially in handling my GSD puppy, but also in respect to other animals, is understanding that animals on the general whole do not perceive things the way to do - they have no ability to discern "higher" concepts like right/wrong. When Lucca runs off with a towel after I've told her "no", it's not because she's just being a defiant little brat - she's determined that towel = fun, mom chasing her = fun, and my "no" has not provided her with enough assurance of danger to override the fun.

I feel like reptiles probably do not even have the concept of fun - they probably don't do things for enjoyment (someone correct me if I'm wrong!), their modes of operation are more basic. Fun is a concept one step above safe/dangerous, and that's probably the level where snakes are - hides are safe, big things with threatening-looking grabbers hovering over them might be dangerous. So, in theory, providing a very standardized ritual we want to handle our snakes will give them cues that our presence is not dangerous, and they don't need to be threatened. Providing reassuring experiences while handling will probably also help build their confidence that handling = safe.

I don't expect Vincent to look forward to being picked up, but I have high hopes that with enough positive experiences in my hands, he will grow to be as confident hanging out over my shoulder as he is climbing the walls of his enclosure, because he will know that I'm not threatening him, and he's safe there.

[SadieJ]

I've had misunderstandings w/my BP, & he seems to forgive (more likely that he forgets completely but who knows?) One thing I'm trying (& I'm a new owner, so take that into consideration) is that before I go to handle him, I wash my hands & arms up to my elbows with th same soap, every time. I'm thinking eventually he will be conditioned to realize that this smell isn't a threat, just th moving scenery w/a heat signature that's coming to pick him up & hold him for a little bit.

[blackpastelball]

One thing that has really helped me, most especially in handling my GSD puppy, but also in respect to other animals, is understanding that animals on the general whole do not perceive things the way to do - they have no ability to discern "higher" concepts like right/wrong. When Lucca runs off with a towel after I've told her "no", it's not because she's just being a defiant little brat - she's determined that towel = fun, mom chasing her = fun, and my "no" has not provided her with enough assurance of danger to override the fun.

I feel like reptiles probably do not even have the concept of fun - they probably don't do things for enjoyment (someone correct me if I'm wrong!), their modes of operation are more basic. Fun is a concept one step above safe/dangerous, and that's probably the level where snakes are - hides are safe, big things with threatening-looking grabbers hovering over them might be dangerous. So, in theory, providing a very standardized ritual we want to handle our snakes will give them cues that our presence is not dangerous, and they don't need to be threatened. Providing reassuring experiences while handling will probably also help build their confidence that handling = safe.

I don't expect Vincent to look forward to being picked up, but I have high hopes that with enough positive experiences in my hands, he will grow to be as confident hanging out over my shoulder as he is climbing the walls of his enclosure, because he will know that I'm not threatening him, and he's safe there.

That is an excellent point, they are more simplistic in their thinking so they are associating me holding them with either safety or danger not fun or comfort. These are good things to keep in mind while handling Bentley, thanks!