first python (childrens).. suggestions possibly needed

[Skiploder]

I will chime in with some advice that seems to be the opposite of what everyone else is recommending!

I'm not an advocate of "natural" looking enclosures. More stuff in the enclosure means more stuff to sanitize. Typically naturalistic enclosures don't get cleaned as often or as thoroughly has they should, either.

My yearling Antaresia are currently in V-18 tubs, with small hide, paper towel tube, and water bowl. Even my "big" 300 gram female children's is not even in a 28qt/sub adult tub yet. I would also advise finding tubs with a tighter seal. Your little noodle is tiny and will very easily make his way out of that tub once he figures out how to reach the top.

Just my , everyone will have their own opinon of what works best for them. I have found that my guys do very well in their current set ups, never refuse meal, and are never defensive, even at 15-30 grams in weight.

Melissa, I think there are some unintended generalities in your post. I think that real practitioners of herpetoculture probably maintain their naturalistic enclosures far better than any member of Clan Tupperware. Bioactive substrate is really fairly easy to get going and provides innumerable benefits beyond being almost self cleaning.

Additionally, while cleaning is more involved, it is certainly easily achieved with practice and dedication to the goal...the goal being replicating the environment as close as possible for the benefit of the animal. Sacrificing a bit of time and care to provide a detailed set up is extremely rewarding...and the process of researching it tends to make us better keepers.

Which is in stark contrast to providing an environment that caters to the keeper.

Tubs and racks are wonderful inventions and I'd be a hyprocrite if I told you I do not use them (although I've almost completely phased them out). Finding new and easy ways to simplify husbandry for the benefit of the keeper is not inherently wrong...but let's not delude ourselves that what is good for the keeper is always good for the kept.

I'd like to encourage new keepers to not only research the natural history of their animals, but to also provide an environment that allows the snake to do what it was programmed to do. While such environments may take more effort and care to maintain and set up, the rewards of actually being able to watch your animals display it's full complement of behaviors is worth the payoff.

Antaeresia are not ball pythons. They thrive in environments that allow them space to move and climb. They are prone to lifestyle diseases if fed the "appropriate sized meal every 7 to 10 days" diet and not allowed to move.

[Marissa@MKmorphs]

Melissa, I think there are some unintended generalities in your post. I think that real practitioners of herpetoculture probably maintain their naturalistic enclosures far better than any member of Clan Tupperware. Bioactive substrate is really fairly easy to get going and provides innumerable benefits beyond being almost self cleaning.

Additionally, while cleaning is more involved, it is certainly easily achieved with practice and dedication to the goal...the goal being replicating the environment as close as possible for the benefit of the animal. Sacrificing a bit of time and care to provide a detailed set up is extremely rewarding...and the process of researching it tends to make us better keepers.

Which is in stark contrast to providing an environment that caters to the keeper.

Tubs and racks are wonderful inventions. finding new and easy ways to simplify husbandry for the benefit of the keeper is not inherently wrong...but let's not delude ourselves that what is good for the keeper is always good for the kept.

I'd like to encourage new keeper to not only research the natural history of their animals, but to also provide an environment that allows the snake to do what it was programmed to do. While such environments may take more effort and care to maintain and set up, the rewards of actually being able to watch your animals display it's full complement of behaviors is worth the payoff.

Antaeresia are not ball pythons. They thrive in environments that allow them space to move and climb. They are prone to lifestyle diseases if fed the "appropriate sized meal every 7 to 10 days" diet and not allowed to move. If the OP would like to take a shot at replicating.

I agree with and understand your points. I'm not disputing that. Also, as stated in my username, my name is Marissa, not Melissa.

I was simply stating what works for me and my animals. My Antaresia get handled the most out of any of my animals. While there are a select few keepers who properly maintain naturalistic enclosures, for the majority of people who want "pretty" or "natural" or "realistic" don't keep their enclosures and habitats as clean as they should be.

I also like how you just assume that because I keep my animals in racks/tubs/PVC enclosures that I don't take the time to learn as much as I possibly can about every species that I can.

The OP was asking for opinions. I told him what works well for me. Your post came across very condescending and that isn't something I'm used to encountering on this site. Try respecting other opinions, it might do you some good.

[Skiploder]

I will chime in with some advice that seems to be the opposite of what everyone else is recommending!

I'm not an advocate of "natural" looking enclosures. More stuff in the enclosure means more stuff to sanitize. Typically naturalistic enclosures don't get cleaned as often or as thoroughly has they should, either.

My yearling Antaresia are currently in V-18 tubs, with small hide, paper towel tube, and water bowl. Even my "big" 300 gram female children's is not even in a 28qt/sub adult tub yet. I would also advise finding tubs with a tighter seal. Your little noodle is tiny and will very easily make his way out of that tub once he figures out how to reach the top.

Just my , everyone will have their own opinon of what works best for them. I have found that my guys do very well in their current set ups, never refuse meal, and are never defensive, even at 15-30 grams in weight.

I agree with and understand your points. I'm not disputing that. Also, as stated in my username, my name is Marissa, not Melissa.

I was simply stating what works for me and my animals. My Antaresia get handled the most out of any of my animals. While there are a select few keepers who properly maintain naturalistic enclosures, for the majority of people who want "pretty" or "natural" or "realistic" don't keep their enclosures and habitats as clean as they should be.

I also like how you just assume that because I keep my animals in racks/tubs/PVC enclosures that I don't take the time to learn as much as I possibly can about every species that I can.

The OP was asking for opinions. I told him what works well for me. Your post came across very condescending and that isn't something I'm used to encountering on this site. Try respecting other opinions, it might do you some good.

...and your post is coming off as needlessly defensive and completely out of line. You really took my post as some sort of bizarre attack on your research or your knowledge of the species you keep? Seriously?

My intent is to allow the OP to understand the benefits of keeping his animal in a naturalistic enclosure if need be. Anything you perceive beyond my alternative viewpoint of husbandry was presumptive and frankly, uncalled for.

There is a wonderful Facebook Group called the Herpetoculture Revival Group. While the enclosures vary from amphibians to lizards to snakes, the amount of care, the husbandry tips and the creativity is truly inspiring. Some people have even made naturalistic ball python enclosures complete with the central focus being a giant burrow.

Be forewarned, there is a constant undertone there with regards to keeping animals in bins, but the knowledge and ideas that can be gleaned from that site is well worth the visit.

[Clay]

...and your post is coming off as needlessly defensive and completely out of line. You really took my post as some sort of bizarre attack on your research or your knowledge of the species you keep? Seriously?

My intent is to allow the OP to understand the benefits of keeping his animal in a naturalistic enclosure if need be. Anything you perceive beyond my alternative viewpoint of husbandry was presumptive and frankly, uncalled for.

There is a wonderful Facebook Group called the Herpetoculture Revival Group. While the enclosures vary from amphibians to lizards to snakes, the amount of care, the husbandry tips and the creativity is truly inspiring. Some people have even made naturalistic ball python enclosures complete with the central focus being a giant burrow.

Be forewarned, there is a constant undertone there with regards to keeping animals in bins, but the knowledge and ideas that can be gleaned from that site is well worth the visit.

curious about the "naturalistic enclosure" since i'm new what is the best way to achieve this.. glass tank or a custom built, can it be done with a tub, mine is one of the bigger tubs height wise, i could maybe look for one that's a little longer in length.. as for glass tanks i have a super hard time heating them, i know you can cover the top half and most do around the sides and back but i like to handle my pets so i don't want a lid i have to fight with to get him out.. my beardy tank has no lid and is a 110 gal glass tank and i had to change up my lighting/heating situation like 3-4 times to get it near right, the cost got pretty pricey figuring it out.. i don't wanna seem cheap but i figured if you buy the right stuff which was suprisly not much the tub would be the cheaper option to go and the snake would still be fine.. i also don't wanna look like the guy who can't afford his pet cuz i've had my beardy 7 yrs now and he's big, healthy and still going strong.. i would rather have natural set up however but i'm not super handy and don't have a ton of free money to throw into the set up plus i live in Canada so we don't have a lot of the less pricey options for DIY..

as an update after my noob mistake with the UTH my tubs ambient temps have went up to 76-77.5 from 73-74.5 but strangely after putting in the bigger water dish my humidity has dropped from 50% to 30% which makes no sense to me but it could be that lid was off for a bit today while i had him out, not really sure? will have to check again tomorrow

keep the feedback rolling, i need input input and information like Johnny 5 haha sorry

[jclaiborne]

i want a branch/climbing tree like that.. wonder if you have to buy that from somewhere

That looks like the bead blasted wood you get from pet stores. You can definately go buy it, but I still prefer to collect from the trees in my backyard, its free.

[jclaiborne]

curious about the "naturalistic enclosure" since i'm new what is the best way to achieve this.. glass tank or a custom built, can it be done with a tub, mine is one of the bigger tubs height wise, i could maybe look for one that's a little longer in length.. as for glass tanks i have a super hard time heating them, i know you can cover the top half and most do around the sides and back but i like to handle my pets so i don't want a lid i have to fight with to get him out.. my beardy tank has no lid and is a 110 gal glass tank and i had to change up my lighting/heating situation like 3-4 times to get it near right, the cost got pretty pricey figuring it out.. i don't wanna seem cheap but i figured if you buy the right stuff which was suprisly not much the tub would be the cheaper option to go and the snake would still be fine.. i also don't wanna look like the guy who can't afford his pet cuz i've had my beardy 7 yrs now and he's big, healthy and still going strong.. i would rather have natural set up however but i'm not super handy and don't have a ton of free money to throw into the set up plus i live in Canada so we don't have a lot of the less pricey options for DIY..

as an update after my noob mistake with the UTH my tubs ambient temps have went up to 76-77.5 from 73-74.5 but strangely after putting in the bigger water dish my humidity has dropped from 50% to 30% which makes no sense to me but it could be that lid was off for a bit today while i had him out, not really sure? will have to check again tomorrow

keep the feedback rolling, i need input input and information like Johnny 5 haha sorry

Seconding what Skip said research the snake, and its natural habitat. IMO you can achieve a naturalistic setup in either glass or "custom built", I prefer to use PVC enclosures because they hold heat better than glass. That being as you can see from the pictures in the other thread my snake is currently in a glass tank. I had it laying around and it was big enough to house him for a little bit while I finish my other builds. What I personally like about doing the naturalistic setup is that it is a constant evolution. You try different things out until you find what works, the more you learn the more little tweaks you make. While the setups may take more time to clean, since this is your only snake I doubt that would be a big deal. With my 4 lizards and 1 snake all in "natural" type setups I spend about half a day cleaning once a week, Bio-active substrate helps quite a bit with it. I have yet to actually make the substrate in my snakes enclosure Bio-Active, but plan to eventually. I know my current setup isn't perfect, but like I said the more I learn about each animal the more I can dial it in, and that is what I personally enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with Marissa's setups either, like she said her snakes are all healthy and thriving. That being said I don't have a large collection like she does and that lets me focus more time on the animals I have. Keep your tub for now. Make little tweaks here and there, find out what works for you and what doesn't, give the worm some time to grow, and in the meantime start doing some research and save up for the enclosure you want to have down the road.

I will say on my end I noticed a drastic change in all my reptiles behaviors as I started modifying their setups. They became more active, my lizards started burrowing, the python started climbing, hanging from above and drinking water, exploring more, etc. Here are a few links for just some general reading. You have gotten good advice from everyone so far so just build on it.

http://www.australianaddiction.com/C...ensPython.html (link to a good book on them)

http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/index.php?pageid=Dirt (bio-active soil)

[Skiploder]

curious about the "naturalistic enclosure" since i'm new what is the best way to achieve this.. glass tank or a custom built, can it be done with a tub, mine is one of the bigger tubs height wise, i could maybe look for one that's a little longer in length.. as for glass tanks i have a super hard time heating them, i know you can cover the top half and most do around the sides and back but i like to handle my pets so i don't want a lid i have to fight with to get him out.. my beardy tank has no lid and is a 110 gal glass tank and i had to change up my lighting/heating situation like 3-4 times to get it near right, the cost got pretty pricey figuring it out.. i don't wanna seem cheap but i figured if you buy the right stuff which was suprisly not much the tub would be the cheaper option to go and the snake would still be fine.. i also don't wanna look like the guy who can't afford his pet cuz i've had my beardy 7 yrs now and he's big, healthy and still going strong.. i would rather have natural set up however but i'm not super handy and don't have a ton of free money to throw into the set up plus i live in Canada so we don't have a lot of the less pricey options for DIY..

as an update after my noob mistake with the UTH my tubs ambient temps have went up to 76-77.5 from 73-74.5 but strangely after putting in the bigger water dish my humidity has dropped from 50% to 30% which makes no sense to me but it could be that lid was off for a bit today while i had him out, not really sure? will have to check again tomorrow

keep the feedback rolling, i need input input and information like Johnny 5 haha sorry

This is something we can discuss through PM or private email. The process can be daunting, but in reality it's fairly easy.

There has been a lot written on "recipes" for bioactive substrate but I kinda stumbled on a formula by accident. Where I work there is slide material that has a high amount of natural DG and top soil mixed in with some sandy loam. Once dried and spread it makes a wonderful bioactive substrate medium. during the winter, we stockpile this stuff (it comes from a National Park) in our staging area and I literally have access to thousands of cubic yards of it.

I was using it in my monitor enclosures because it is perfect for many of the odataria species. After awhile I noticed that I had a ton of isopods in the enclosures. I actually use these to seed additional set ups.

This substrate is self cleaning...the isopods and other organisms rapidly break down waste.

After you find a suitable substrate, the next trick is researching the natural environment of your children. As J pointed out, there are numerous resources you can draw on to give you ideas. Do they utilize burrows? Do they use rock formations? Do they climb? Do they drink from puddled water or from accumulated moisture? What temps have they been observed basking at? Do they seem to benefit from UV light at all? Are they nocturnal, diurnal or crepuscular?

Find those answers out for yourself. If they utilize burrows, a terra cota pot buried in the bioactive substrate will do a great job of wicking water from the soil and making a nice humid burrow. If they utilize rock ledges, you can buy some nice ones made of foam from several sources....the options are endless and the results are...as others have attested to....rewarding.

As J related, PVC enclosures are nice because they not only hold humidity and temps better, but also their dimension tend to work better for reptile species.

At some point I'm going to put my current clelia rustica naturalistic build up..from start to finish. Again, if you have any questions regarding the process, feel free to PM me.

[Clay]

This is something we can discuss through PM or private email. The process can be daunting, but in reality it's fairly easy.

There has been a lot written on "recipes" for bioactive substrate but I kinda stumbled on a formula by accident. Where I work there is slide material that has a high amount of natural DG and top soil mixed in with some sandy loam. Once dried and spread it makes a wonderful bioactive substrate medium. during the winter, we stockpile this stuff (it comes from a National Park) in our staging area and I literally have access to thousands of cubic yards of it.

I was using it in my monitor enclosures because it is perfect for many of the odataria species. After awhile I noticed that I had a ton of isopods in the enclosures. I actually use these to seed additional set ups.

This substrate is self cleaning...the isopods and other organisms rapidly break down waste.

After you find a suitable substrate, the next trick is researching the natural environment of your children. As J pointed out, there are numerous resources you can draw on to give you ideas. Do they utilize burrows? Do they use rock formations? Do they climb? Do they drink from puddled water or from accumulated moisture? What temps have they been observed basking at? Do they seem to benefit from UV light at all? Are they nocturnal, diurnal or crepuscular?

Find those answers out for yourself. If they utilize burrows, a terra cota pot buried in the bioactive substrate will do a great job of wicking water from the soil and making a nice humid burrow. If they utilize rock ledges, you can buy some nice ones made of foam from several sources....the options are endless and the results are...as others have attested to....rewarding.

As J related, PVC enclosures are nice because they not only hold humidity and temps better, but also their dimension tend to work better for reptile species.

At some point I'm going to put my current clelia rustica naturalistic build up..from start to finish. Again, if you have any questions regarding the process, feel free to PM me.

do you have PVC tank set up for your naturalistic build?
i remember ppl would use PVC piping for Iguana tanks but haven't actually seen a PVC snake set up yet, will google search some..

also i had my thermometer set to the wrong setting so it was reading my living room temp instead of inside the tub so i switched that over.. Humidity is showing 40% and my ambient is 73F.. have the TSTAT set to 91.5F.. maybe i made too many air holes (back side has two rows 3/4 across the top of the tub and front side has 3 rows of holes all the way across using a soldering iron)

[Clay]

just looked up some of the PVC tanks.. seen them at the Reptile Expo, wish i had more money to grab them, they were cheap compared to these online prices..
looked at some bio tank set ups too.. maybe later on i'll have more time to set something like that up.. always wanted like pool or stream to water set up for as long as i could remember too but you really need the know how to do all this stuff.. i have 2 younger kids so i don't really get a lot of time to sit and figure stuff out without interruptions yet

[jclaiborne]

just looked up some of the PVC tanks.. seen them at the Reptile Expo, wish i had more money to grab them, they were cheap compared to these online prices..
looked at some bio tank set ups too.. maybe later on i'll have more time to set something like that up.. always wanted like pool or stream to water set up for as long as i could remember too but you really need the know how to do all this stuff.. i have 2 younger kids so i don't really get a lot of time to sit and figure stuff out without interruptions yet

You can generally find them used for quite a discount depending on what you are looking for. For off the shelf I use Vision Cages, they aren't the prettiest, but they are one piece and light weight. I made some mods to the them to allow for a deeper substrate, which is what led to me build my own enclosures, it isn't any cheaper but it lets me build them exactely how I want them. I assume some of the bio-tanks you saw were for frogs etc since you mentioned pools and streams. Do yourself a favor and really research like Skip and I have both said where Anteresia Childerni come from and what their natural habitat looks like. You will realize that generally when one refers to a "bio-tank" they are just referring to the fact that the soil is "alive" meaning it has springtails, isopods, and other cleaner bugs that help sustain the environment and clean up waste. It can also refer to living plants etc. While the planning takes a while once you have a direction to go the keep up really is minimal, and again I myself find it rewarding. I enjoy watch the animal in its environment just as much as I enjoy hands on with it. You can build it in stages as well. Again mine is no where near complete for any of the reptiles I keep because it is a constant evolution of "how can I make this better".

I don't know how old your kids are, but I have a 6 year old son, and he has really enjoyed helping me out, it use to be all about "I want to hold them", now he tries to do his own research and come up with ideas on how to improve the environment. Its is a fun bonding/learning experience. All that being said you have to want to do it and enjoy it or like anything else it will become a chore. You don't have to do anything right now other than research as much as you can. Skip pointed you in the direction of some great starting points.

As far as the temps in your tank. You may have added too many holes, since heat rises and your holes are at the top of the bin you are losing a bit of heat. Where are you taking the reading for your ambient temps vs the reading for your surface temp? You really should have a probe for each spot or an IR temp gun to measure the hot spot. That being said I try not to give too much advice on different Temps because what works for me may not work for someone else, but I will say this (**I am not telling you what temps to use, again do some searching**) But the ambients in MY tank are mid 70s and the hot spot fluctuates between 98-101, so a low 90s hot spot IN MY OPTION is a little too low.