1.0, .4, .25, etc.? Have some questions.

[anxrchism]

So I understand the whole Co-Dominant and Dominant genes (and how a Het. just means it has the gene, it just doesn't show up), but I do not fully understand how you determine what percent the Het. is (i.e. 1.0 Het ____ /1.0 Pastel), nor how to make an understandable Punnett square to determine the genes/morphs of hatchlings.
I have been using a genetic "calculator" to see what morphs I could get from any two snakes bred, but I find that it takes a lot more time than regular breeders simply forming a punnett square in their heads to determine the possibilities.
If anyone could explain the whole "1.0 ___, or .4 ____", as well as how to make a punnett square for genes that's simple and not as confusing as most tutorials attempting to explain it, it would be much appreciated.

[somnambulant]

I think you're confusing a few different terms. The 1.0/0.1 refers to the sex of the snake. 1.0 is male, 0.1 is female, and 0.0.1 is unsexed. So, if I have 1.2 66% possible het pieds, that means that I have 1 male and 2 female balls that have a 66% chance of carrying the piebald gene.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if you have two visually pied (or whatever recessive gene you're breeding out) parents, then all of the offspring that look normal are 100% het pied. If you have two het parents, you may get a clutch with a few visual pieds and normal looking offspring. Only 66% of those normals will carry the gene. If you breed a het pied to a normal, all of your hatchlings will look normal, but only 50% of them would be het... meaning that each hatchling has a 50% chance of carrying the pied gene.

Here is a quick link I found that talks about genetics and percentages: http://www.arbreptiles.com/genetics101.shtml

There are also examples of the punnet square on that link.

Hope that helped!

[ajmreptiles]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if you have two visually pied (or whatever recessive gene you're breeding out) parents, then all of the offspring that look normal are 100% het pied. If you have two het parents, you may get a clutch with a few visual pieds and normal looking offspring. Only 66% of those normals will carry the gene. If you breed a het pied to a normal, all of your hatchlings will look normal, but only 50% of them would be het... meaning that each hatchling has a 50% chance of carrying the pied gene.

using pied as your example
if both parents are pied then offspring will all be pieds
if 1 is pied other is het the 50% of the offspring will be pied and 50% will be 100% het
het to het will yield 25$ pied and the rest will be 66% het
het to normal will net 50% het

same goes for all recessives just using pied as the example to be a little more clear

[Eric Alan]

To explain the numbers, it's male.female.unsexed. Commonly, the last number is dropped if all sexes are known. So, 1.0 would be one male. 0.1 would be one female. 0.0.1 would be one unsexed animal. 4.16 would be four males and 16 females. And so on and so on...

As far as the Het thing goes, it only refers to recessive genes (albino, piebald, clown, hypo, etc). The % Het thing comes from the specific pairing that produced the offspring.

• If one parent is a visually recessive snake, all non-visual offspring will be 100% Het for that recessive trait (guaranteed to be carrying the trait, but not showing it visually).
• If one parent is 100% Het for a recessive trait, all offspring will be 50% possible Hets. You won't be able to tell which offspring are carrying the recessive trait and which aren't, hence the 50% designation.
• If both parents are 100% Het for a recessive trait, all non-visually recessive offspring will be 66% possible Hets. Again, you can't tell which are carrying the recessive trait, but you do have a slightly better chance of them having it.
• If you have anything that is less than 100% Het for a trait, you can't say anything about them or their offspring with any certainty until you breed them and produce/don't produce any visually recessive offspring.

I can also tell you that there are a fair amount of breeders out there that probably couldn't form a Punnett square if their life depended on it. Basically, they know that if they pair a male with three genes to a female with a single different gene, they have equal chances at any offspring ranging from a normal snake to a four gene animal (and every possible combination in between). The only real time a Punnett square is helpful is when there are overlapping genes between the two parents and you have increased chances of a few combinations. To get the actual odds in this scenario, just treat all of the genes as if they were different - when you get multiples of the same result, what you are actually seeing is an increased (doubled) possibility of producing that particular offspring compared with the rest of the offspring.

Does that help any?

Also, welcome to the site!

[somnambulant]

using pied as your example
if both parents are pied then offspring will all be pieds
if 1 is pied other is het the 50% of the offspring will be pied and 50% will be 100% het
het to het will yield 25$ pied and the rest will be 66% het
het to normal will net 50% het

same goes for all recessives just using pied as the example to be a little more clear

Oh dang it, I knew I was messing up somewhere. Thanks!

[ajmreptiles]

I can also tell you that there are a fair amount of breeders out there that probably couldn't form a Punnett square if their life depended on it. Basically, they know that if they pair a male with three genes to a female with a single different gene, they have equal chances at any offspring ranging from a normal snake to a four gene animal (and every possible combination in between). The only real time a Punnett square is helpful is when there are overlapping genes between the two parents and you have increased chances of a few combinations. To get the actual odds in this scenario, just treat all of the genes as if they were different - when you get multiples of the same result, what you are actually seeing is an increased (doubled) possibility of producing that particular offspring compared with the rest of the offspring.

Haha, after reading Kevin McCureley's new book, I understand punnett squares a lot more than I did before, but I doubt I could form one that dealt with more than 3 genes to it.

[Eric Alan]

I completely forgot! You're probably using the most common calculator on WOBP, right? I like this one too because it has the most "picture friendly" results. However, there is another one made by a member of this site (OhhWatALoser) that does a better job at the calculations themselves, along with differentiating dominant/incomplete dominant/recessive/multiple gene animals: http://www.owalreptiles.com/genetics.php. Enjoy!

[anxrchism]

Thank you !

[anxrchism]

To explain the numbers, it's male.female.unsexed. Commonly, the last number is dropped if all sexes are known. So, 1.0 would be one male. 0.1 would be one female. 0.0.1 would be one unsexed animal. 4.16 would be four males and 16 females. And so on and so on...

As far as the Het thing goes, it only refers to recessive genes (albino, piebald, clown, hypo, etc). The % Het thing comes from the specific pairing that produced the offspring.

• If one parent is a visually recessive snake, all non-visual offspring will be 100% Het for that recessive trait (guaranteed to be carrying the trait, but not showing it visually).
• If one parent is 100% Het for a recessive trait, all offspring will be 50% possible Hets. You won't be able to tell which offspring are carrying the recessive trait and which aren't, hence the 50% designation.
• If both parents are 100% Het for a recessive trait, all non-visually recessive offspring will be 66% possible Hets. Again, you can't tell which are carrying the recessive trait, but you do have a slightly better chance of them having it.
• If you have anything that is less than 100% Het for a trait, you can't say anything about them or their offspring with any certainty until you breed them and produce/don't produce any visually recessive offspring.

I can also tell you that there are a fair amount of breeders out there that probably couldn't form a Punnett square if their life depended on it. Basically, they know that if they pair a male with three genes to a female with a single different gene, they have equal chances at any offspring ranging from a normal snake to a four gene animal (and every possible combination in between). The only real time a Punnett square is helpful is when there are overlapping genes between the two parents and you have increased chances of a few combinations. To get the actual odds in this scenario, just treat all of the genes as if they were different - when you get multiples of the same result, what you are actually seeing is an increased (doubled) possibility of producing that particular offspring compared with the rest of the offspring.

Does that help any?

Also, welcome to the site!

Yes, that helped a ton. Thanks for the welcome!

[JustinAskin]

Great thread!