Normal x Normal breeding

[Peoples]

So the discussion has arisen regarding normal x normal breeding, frankly I don't see an issue with it. Reason being I won't force a beginner to purchase anything over $100, yes it's a business but they are people that would suffice paying $25 for an animal just because it's a snake. I personally have only breed normal x normal... Why? Because as a breeder new to the game, I am in no hurry to shell out hundreds for trial and error egg experiments. Once I've gotten the hang then I'll make the plunge. I also strongly think normals have earned their place in this game. Would love to see the comments on my view as well as the views of others.

[Najakeeper]

I thought that only happened in the wild .

Kidding aside, your reasoning is sound. It is a good trial and there will always be a market for normal pythons.

[Pythonfriend]

sure, normals do have a part in this market, but i dont see how you can compete with the african breeding farms.

if based in the USA, how are you supposed to compete with a wholesale price of 7-10 dollars per hatchling? could you ever undercut that price? can you compete with a breeding farm that doesnt need rhodents or electricity? the BPs go out and hunt at night, and there is no reason to heat anything, and you can incubate in big buckets of wood shavings.

many farmers provide hiding places for the BPs to be safe during the day, and pull and incubate clutches, with the main purpose of fighting the rhodents on the farm. and when they have many rhodents and no financial trouble, they let all the hatchlings go free. and when the rhodents are properly under control and some extra money would be nice, they sell their hatchlings to a cooperative. i dont see how the western way of BP breeding, with tubs and thermostats and incubators and associated rhodent breeding, can compete with the african way of doing it.

the only advantage western breeders have is the morphs.

so, from a purely economic point of view, there seems to be no way to even come close to black numbers with normal to normal breedings. you cannot compete with the african farmer who actually makes a profit by occasionally selling a bag of hatchlings for 3-5 dollars per piece, and the african cooperative that actually makes a profit by exporting them in large shipments for 7-10 dollars per piece. of course there is a healthy wholesale market for normals hatchlings in the USA that you can easily tap into, but its pretty much stuck at around 20-25 dollars per piece.


so, no problem with breeding normal to normal, except that your wallet wont like it.

[bcr229]

You're assuming that OP is selling his normal hatchlings. I will likely give mine away to local friends who have expressed interest in getting a BP after learning about and handling mine. The snake will go with the stipulation that if/when it is no longer wanted, it gets returned to me.

[sho220]

Why? Because as a breeder new to the game, I am in no hurry to shell out hundreds for trial and error egg experiments.

I've never understood this. It's not rocket science. There are just a few very, VERY basic conditions that need to met and nature does the rest. No experimenting is necessary...you're not doing anything new. Single gene morphs are also dirt cheap so you could be producing 2 gene babies with very little money invested...

[Pythonfriend]

You're assuming that OP is selling his normal hatchlings. I will likely give mine away to local friends who have expressed interest in getting a BP after learning about and handling mine. The snake will go with the stipulation that if/when it is no longer wanted, it gets returned to me.

well, yes, my post assumes that its either professional breeding, or being done with the goal of having the hobby pay for itself at least partially ^^

[MisterKyte]

I've never understood this. It's not rocket science. There are just a few very, VERY basic conditions that need to met and nature does the rest. No experimenting is necessary...you're not doing anything new. Single gene morphs are also dirt cheap so you could be producing 2 gene babies with very little money invested...

Honestly, I don't even think you should a lot of experimenting unless you're pretty familiar with the incubation process and have a really good idea of what needs to be tweaked to make for a more successful incubation period. But a lot of the most common methods of incubation are pretty tried and true so there's a reason why they're used by so many, because they work!

Anyway personally don't see the point in a normalxnormal breeding because like Pythonfriend said, there's a lot of market competition in that department and chances are, with many morphxmorph pairings you'll be getting some normals anyway. But I also am a bit concerned with the premise of such a pairing because are you breeding because you can or because you should? I think there's a lot of people in the hobby who breed their snakes just because they happen to have these snakes and in the end that usually only accomplishes in flooding the market, it's kind of purposeless. Honestly, I really only think that people should be breeding their animals if said animals are of the highest quality and are going to be actively improving the genepool, both in health and appearance.

[sho220]

Honestly, I don't even think you should a lot of experimenting unless you're pretty familiar with the incubation process and have a really good idea of what needs to be tweaked to make for a more successful incubation period. But a lot of the most common methods of incubation are pretty tried and true so there's a reason why they're used by so many, because they work!

Anyway personally don't see the point in a normalxnormal breeding because like Pythonfriend said, there's a lot of market competition in that department and chances are, with many morphxmorph pairings you'll be getting some normals anyway. But I also am a bit concerned with the premise of such a pairing because are you breeding because you can or because you should? I think there's a lot of people in the hobby who breed their snakes just because they happen to have these snakes and in the end that usually only accomplishes in flooding the market, it's kind of purposeless. Honestly, I really only think that people should be breeding their animals if said animals are of the highest quality and are going to be actively improving the genepool, both in health and appearance.

Agree with all that. I don't see the point either unless you're trying to prove out a dinker. People have been breeding the crap out of anything they can get their hands on for years, just for the sake of breeding, which is why prices are in the dumper. For years, people have had the mindset of just cranking out as many clutches as possible, year after year, with almost no thought going into the pairings...

[Peoples]

First off a few things I should clarify.

1. I live in the caribbean and can easily hatch a clutch at room temperature.

2. I do sell all my babies.

3. Since import laws restrict importation of snakes to zoos I make $US 300 per normal baby and yes I have morphs but for my private collection only. Unlike those in the US, my market isn't saturated.

To the poster that said not much experimenting can be done, do you know eggs can get laid upside down? Yes there is an upside to a bp egg, which you can safely roll right side up within the first few hours of being laid. Now ask yourself... maybe that explains healthy eggs suddenly dying during incubation. Want to experiment with that on a morph x morph pairing clutch?

With that said my OP refered to the US economy.

I accept all feedback so far and respect each opinion.

[sho220]

To the poster that said not much experimenting can be done, do you know eggs can get laid upside down? Yes there is an upside to a bp egg, which you can safely roll right side up within the first few hours of being laid. Now ask yourself... maybe that explains healthy eggs suddenly dying during incubation. Want to experiment with that on a morph x morph pairing clutch?

That experiment has already been done...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Egg-Experiment