The Prevalence of Duckbill and Popularity of Cinnamon

[Archimedes]

I would love if some of the larger breeders or any breeders who've worked extensively with Cinnamon could provide some insight on this.

I intended to go for Pewters a few years down the road, but my mind is quietly changing because of the research I've done, which digs up the deformity log on duckbill. Now just how frequently does this occur, statistically? (as a rough guess, obviously.) Is it allellic, like wobble? Or does it occur more frequently in certain lines?

Also, what tends to be more popular, Cinnamon Pastel or Black Pewter? Obviously preference is subjective, but does the possibility of duckbill turn you off from getting a Cinny combo, or is it just part of the charm?

I'm beginning to think that Cinny is no longer quite as appealing to me as it used to be, but I would like to put it to the peanut gallery before passing my own uneducated judgement.

[OhhWatALoser]

I have talked to a few people who work with the gene and have produced multiple super animals. From what I have been told, duck bill and kinks can be as rare as 1 in 50 and can be as often as 1 in 2. It doesn't seem to matter whether it is cinny or Black pastel, both are prone to it. My guess is, some blood is just more prone to it or some certain pairs change the ratio, but that is purely guessing. Cinny and Black pastel are allelic with each other, the wobble has nothing to do with anything in this subject.

Black pastel seems to be the majority favorite, but black pastel seems to be just as prone to duckbills and kinks as cinny. I think it's just when you work with dark genes, you want the darkest of them all and black pastel tends to be darker than cinny.

Hopefully someone can chime in with first hand info for you, but I hope that helps

[MisterKyte]

I've heard much of the same as OWAL, basically certain family lines are more prone to it than others so if yuo want to breed Supers of either morph, you should try to get to know the family history of the animals you work with which unfortunately, isn't always as easy as it sounds. :/

My two cents though, if you just want to breed Pewter things then go for it. You really don't have to worry about duckbilling or kinking because it's something that pretty much happens repeatedly in the Super Cinn and Black Pastels (of course you can get duckbilled and kinked snakes anyway but I mean in the single allele form it appears to be as common as in any other morph). So if you want to get Supers for your breeding projects, just don't buy ones that are duckbilled or kinked.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I intended to go for Pewters

The issues when they occurs in both Cinny and Black Pastel are with supers.

[Pythonfriend]

it only affects the super forms, so working with pewters is no problem at all. if you dont want to produce the super forms, then dont you can work around it by avoiding pairings where both parents have one of these genes, and stick to pairings like black pewter to firefly, or pewter to lesser bee, or lemonblast to black bee. so even if you want to avoid the risks completely, you can still work with the gene and go for the combos.


i think black pastel is more popular because its darker, and also because some high-quality lines do some awesome stuff with the pattern.

about the issue with the super forms, i also heared that it depends a lot on the specific lines. but i also heared that the duckbill is quite common, while kinks are quite rare. how true is that?

[MisterKyte]

about the issue with the super forms, i also heared that it depends a lot on the specific lines. but i also heared that the duckbill is quite common, while kinks are quite rare. how true is that?

Personally, I certainly notice ones with duckbills quite a bit more than kninking but I think that may partially because there are more breeders who are okay with breeding Super Cinns/Black Pastels with noticeable duckbilling than there are ones who would breed animals with kinking. Though that's just a personal theory/observation.

[Archimedes]

I had the chance to buy a Cinny from a local pet store that didn't know what they had. Unfortunately it fell through for several reasons: not sure of the sex, noticeable duckbill to someone with an eye out for defects, and very slight kinking just above the vent. I might have gone for it if one less of those physical issues existed, and I wouldn't ever ask any of the workers there to sex a snake.

[Pythonfriend]

I had the chance to buy a Cinny from a local pet store that didn't know what they had. Unfortunately it fell through for several reasons: not sure of the sex, noticeable duckbill to someone with an eye out for defects, and very slight kinking just above the vent. I might have gone for it if one less of those physical issues existed, and I wouldn't ever ask any of the workers there to sex a snake.

wait, and this really is a cinnamon you are talking about? the normal heterozygous version, with pattern, just a lot darker than a normal? not a patternless dark brown homozygous super cinnamon? i just need to make sure we are not confusing cinnamon and super cinnamon here.

if a cinnamon has these issues, its time to run and never look back. cinnamon should have none of these issues, absolutely nothing, no kink no duckbill. for super cinnamon i would say kinks are unacceptable, but a slight duckbill is acceptable. but for a regular cinnamon any of these issues is highly unusual, and unacceptable, i mean, this is almost as unusual as a pastel with duckbill and a slight kink would be.

[Archimedes]

yes, single-gene cinny. it was mixed in with a bunch of normals, I probed the staff to see how much they knew about the breeder that supplies their BPs and turns out he keeps no records. I wanted to take the poor thing anyway and have it as a pet only (I refuse to have an undoc'd kink as a breeder), but I didnt have the money in hand and we all know that they would just bring another animal in.

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[satomi325]

Some single gened cinnys and black pastels do get duck billing, but it's not as common as the supers/homozygous forms.

A friend of mine hatched a few black pastels with minor duck bills.