What is the difference between black pastel and cinnamon?

[J.P.]

If you have a homozygous animal from cinnamon x black pastel parents and breed that to a normal, the resulting clutch have obvious cinnamons and black pastels? The punnet square says yes, but i don't know how the actual offspring would look like. Since the genes come from a single homozygous animal, maybe it will mix up the traits in the offspring. Like a cinnamon with squigles for example? I wish somebody who has done it before can share actual results.

[satomi325]

If you have a homozygous animal from cinnamon x black pastel parents and breed that to a normal, the resulting clutch have obvious cinnamons and black pastels? The punnet square says yes, but i don't know how the actual offspring would look like. Since the genes come from a single homozygous animal, maybe it will mix up the traits in the offspring. Like a cinnamon with squigles for example? I wish somebody who has done it before can share actual results.

You will get half cinnamons and half black pastels. It shouldn't be a mix of traits like that. That's not how the mutations work. Its either a black pastel or a cinny. You will be able to tell the differences.

Its like Lesser Mojave blue eyed leucistics. They produce half Lessers and half Mojaves. You can still tell the difference in the offspring.

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[J.P.]

that is good to know. I want a black snake and prefer the look of cinny x black pastel over super cinnamon but would have gone super cinnamon if not for your reply.

[satomi325]

that is good to know. I want a black snake and prefer the look of cinny x black pastel over super cinnamon but would have gone super cinnamon if not for your reply.

For a more black snake, you can also try a super black pastel.
The super cinny is more of a brown tinted snake than black.

[J.P.]

Yeah, but i already have some cinnamons, so i'd only have to add a black pastel. The super black pastel would be next once i produce more of them. Thanks

[tephillips06]

Is this a cinny?


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[satomi325]

Is this a cinny?

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Yes. Looks like one to me.

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[yzguy]

I saw there were some color differences, but they did not seem all THAT different, and with normal, and many morphs there can be quite a lot of variations, and I am just making sure it is actually something different, and not just variations.

Also when mixed with other things, it also starts making it difficult to tell what exactly is what. So any opinions on this little guy?
Should be butter and black pewter
More pics here
http://www.1bad69.com/gallery/?path=...ol=3&MaxRow=40

[Pythonfriend]

when mixed with a bunch of other stuff, everything sooner or later gets difficult to tell apart from everything else

the thing is, you can tell apart the super forms and you can tell apart the single-gene BPs and it holds true for some combos as well. so its different morphs.

sure, there will be combos where you can no longer tell it apart, but these exist for different genes as well. one drastic example: super bamboo, bamboo lesser, bamboo mojave and bamboo mystic all look absolutely identical. but if you dont know what it is from the records and pairings that produced it, you can still prove it out and figure out whats inside by breeding it.

that being said, the one in the picture, could be black pastel or could be cinnamon. i really cant tell. but this is only a problem when in the genetics of both mom and dad combined, both cinnamon and black pastel are present. if the breeding records do not reveal it, breed it to anything that doesnt have cinnamon or black pastel in it, and the chances are really good that you get some hatchlings that confirm one or the other. lesser/butter has a strong influence, but if you breed it and one of the hatchlings is a single-gene of cinnamon or black pastel, or you hatch a pewter or black pewter, you will know.

with genes that really are the same, thats not possible. once you mix them, you can no longer tell them apart. when you mix lesser and butter, you are lost in the woods, and probarbly end up calling them all lessers. or butters. when you mix lesser and mojave, breeding will allow you to seperate it out again.

[digizure]

I have both, a cinnamon and a black pastel. You should see a "truer" black with black pastels and with cinnamons, you will see a reddish tint. That's how I tell the difference.

Personally, I like super black pastel over super cinnamon.