lesser x butter and black pastel x cinnamon

[brewturtle]

Has anyone bred a butter with a lesser? Or bred a black pastel with a cinnamon? And if so how do you differenciate the offspring?

[Productmur]

Both breedings have been done before. Butter x Lesser will result in 25% normals, 50% Butter/Lesser, and 25% Blue-eyed Lucy (see here: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/butter-lesser/), but the Blue-eyed Lucies resulting from this pairing have a tendency to have "bug-eyes", a trait that doesn't seem to harm them, but is undesirable. From what I understand, Butter and Lesser are commonly accepted as the same morph. They seem to be the same gene, just different lines of it. So, identifying the offspring shouldn't be a problem.

As far as Black Pastel x Cinnamon, the results would be 25% normals, 25% Black Pastels, 25% Cinnamons, and 25% 8 Balls (Black pastel cinnamons), which are a solid-colored brownish-black snake that brown out as they age (see here: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...stel-cinnamon/). From what I have heard on these, Black Pastels have black "squiggles" in their alien heads that distinguish them from Cinnamons. This Black Pastel shows prominent squiggles to demonstrate what I mean: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lHYW4CLelY...Y/s1600/22.jpg. Comparatively, here is a Cinnamon (note the lack of black inside the alien head shapes): http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/t...280z/Cinny.jpg.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please. Oh, and pictures were a result of a google image search and belong to their respective owners.

[Yamitaifu]

Butter x lesser would be a BEL. Cinny x black pastel is the 8 ball. I dont know howd you tell the difference with lesser and butter. black pastels have less blushing on the sides than cinnys


Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy snakes and that's pretty close

[Yamitaifu]

Butter x lesser would be a BEL. Cinny x black pastel is the 8 ball. I dont know howd you tell the difference with lesser and butter. black pastels have less blushing on the sides than cinny


Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy snakes and that's pretty close

[brewturtle]

So what's the difference between butter and lesser?

[OhhWatALoser]

So what's the difference between butter and lesser?

Lessers came form ralph davis's platty daddy. There are a couple different butter lines, I think ralph founded one of them also. Genetically they are the same tho.

[Pythonfriend]

there is no difference between butter and lesser, its just two names for the same thing. once you combine them, you cannot tell them apart, and only your personal choice determines if you call them butters or lessers or lesser/butters. if there once has been a difference, it is now meaningless because years of re-labeling and recombining did a good job of mixing it up. BPs where the owner can no longer trace it back to either of the original line are being used for breeding, producing more BPs that cannot be clearly traced back. there are no visual differences, so unless your records of anchestry are complete and go all the way back and dont contain lesser to butter breedings, you have absolutely no way to know for sure.

there is some difference between black pastel and cinnamon: super black pastel is somewhere between dark grey and black, and super cinnamon is somewhere between dark brown and black, and the 8-ball is halfway inbetween. the single-gene offspring may be difficult to sort out, but it should be possible. here there are visual differences, and breeders manage to sort it out even if they do black pastel to cinnamon breedings.

it has already been mentioned, there seem to be known issues with both breedings:

super lesser / super butter / lesser butter: sometimes small eyes / bug eyes.
super black pastel / super cinnamon / 8-ball: quite often duckbill, a characteristic head deformity, very rare cases of spine issues / kinks.

[Neal]

I'm going for a BEL, but I'm going to be pairing a Mojave x Lesser.

I wanted a super black pastel, and still do but I won't run the risk of the birth defects.