southern ontario breeders price wars

[200xth]

I see the same thing happening here in the states. I'm seeing pastels for $50 and spiders for the same. It stinks that it's happening but that's how the market is. But all I know is that when my babies start hatching from their eggs nothing is going to be sold for $50. I think normals are worth more than $50 so in my opinion no morph should ever be priced that low. But that's just my personal opinion. I can't understand how you feel about it.

What if they don't sell at $50? Food and bedding will add up to at least $50 at some point...after that point, every snake is a loss, and the longer you hold them, the bigger the losses.

Friend of mine is selling his normals to a wholesaler for $12 to $15 just to get rid of them. He's got a pastel male he's about ready to give away. If someone would offer him $40 for it, he would jump at it.

If you're happy keeping them as pets, that's understandable. I'm doing a little breeding this year (2 females only...hopefully it works out), but it's a hobby for me, so my view is a little different from people who do this as a business. I'm just not sure what angle you're looking at it from.

[CrystalRose]

That's about how it was at the show I went to. I paid 120 for my female lesser. Males were 75. Female mojaves were 100 and male mojaves were 60. Male pastels and spiders were 40-50 and females about double that. Normals were about 15-20. Most of the 2+ gene animals were more in the same range as prices I've seen online though.

[AlexisFitzy]

Well I just wanted to give my quick little opinion but this is the last thing I'll say before people start getting nasty. I know this won't matter to people that are looking at it from a business standpoint, it might not even make sense to them. I don't even know if hobbyist will get it but oh well it's just how I feel about this whole thing. Just think about any inanimate object that is $100 or less. Or maybe even more than that. Like a brand new game console. The ps3. Which is about $300 brand new. To me I Value life, and the life of anything is Valuable to me. So I think that a pet is more valuable than these other inanimate objects that we buy for fun/entertainment. If people can pay that much for those types of recreation why wouldn't they want to pay what an animal is actually worth? It's not like everyone on earth can't afford a $200 bp morph. A $50 one is just more appealing but there are plenty of people that will pay more for a quality bp morph. How do you think all of the other big breeders are still in business? There definitely not selling snakes for $50. I know I'm not a big breeder but I think I should be able to sell my animals for the same price as they are selling there's. If I sell a brand new iPhone 5 and I'll price it as whats it's worth from the apple website because it's the same exact thing. If I'm selling a pastel and their selling a pastel why would I sell mine for $50 when they are selling there's for $200? That's just how I'm seeing things. But my viewpoints are probably super wrong compared to other peoples but it doesn't matter. It is how I want to view the situation and it's my Personal opinion on the matter. If you don't like it I'm sorry. But to the op I totally understand how you feel and maybe we can relate on this and be the two oddballs out of the group I hope everyone is having an awesome day and an even better season!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[m00kfu]

How do you think all of the other big breeders are still in business? There definitely not selling snakes for $50.

Oh they definitely are, they're over producing just like everyone else is. Why do you think auctions have become so popular? Because they can't sell what they produce at the market price fast enough so it gets dumped to the highest bidder...

[Raven01]

Hey everyone im here fora bit of a rant, i go to every expo in my area of southern ontario usually one a month. But things have just gotten rediculous up here. Last year prices seemed stable cheapy morphs are 125-350$ new things wwre 750 -1000 this past expo i was seeing mojave females for 75$ pin females 100$ pastels were 50$ spiders same 50$. I love how i bought all these last year for 250 350 for males. The breeders up here are trying to out produce n under sell each other so much that ppl r giving snakes away. I was offered a phatom breeder male het alb. 40$. Soon there will b no market up here or no one will be breeding becaise they cant affors the rats. Anyone else find this discusting n foolish. Or is it happening by you

Focus on quality and you will do alright. The volume might be lower and the start slower but, I think in the long run it can really pay off. I like axanthics myself but and generally unhappy with how both the VPI and TSK lines mature. Consequently, when I am ready to jump into the axes I will be purchasing MJ line likely for more that standard axes go for (I saw some of his at a medium size at the CRBE and they had really retained their silver/black without the heavy browns) and possibly if I get very lucky trying for some Black Ax, I would be cool to prove out or disprove in those are compatible with the MJ line. Worst case I get some double het's and still have some really nice snakes to work with.

[worthbrown]

So if the oil companies get together and say "gas should not be going that cheap" and all agree to keep prices high, you would be ok with that? Sherman Anti-Trust Act? I know it is not really the same thing, but the market needs to determine pricing. If that is the price for normals or single gene snakes, there are probably too many available. I am not a breeder, just have pets (Male Pastel and Female Bumble Bee), but people like me could have a big impact on pricing. My snakes are pets, but when I got the bumble bee, I made sure to get a female in case I want to breed them. I bet there a a lot of people that do the same thing. Just my $.02

[NH93]

I too am in Southern Ontario, and have visited some shows recently. I am brand new to snakes, just a few months into it (not even years) so I have nothing to compare to. However, I personally don't mind the prices being reduced - slightly - for people like me who just want one or two snakes as pets. Now, I don't need to have the most sought-after or fancy snake to be happy. I was super excited just to get my pinstripe
There was one guy at the Toronto expo selling normal males for $10. This has me worried, not for the ball python/snake market, but for people getting pets without doing their research or taking proper care of them.
If you can pick up an animal that cheap I feel like people may be more inclined to spend less on its needs altogether, and not put the effort into taking care of it as much. When you "invest" in an animal, like anything, you will want to take care of it. I think that's just human nature.


That's all I have to say about that.

[Raven01]

I too am in Southern Ontario, and have visited some shows recently. I am brand new to snakes, just a few months into it (not even years) so I have nothing to compare to. However, I personally don't mind the prices being reduced - slightly - for people like me who just want one or two snakes as pets. Now, I don't need to have the most sought-after or fancy snake to be happy. I was super excited just to get my pinstripe
There was one guy at the Toronto expo selling normal males for $10. This has me worried, not for the ball python/snake market, but for people getting pets without doing their research or taking proper care of them.
If you can pick up an animal that cheap I feel like people may be more inclined to spend less on its needs altogether, and not put the effort into taking care of it as much. When you "invest" in an animal, like anything, you will want to take care of it. I think that's just human nature.


That's all I have to say about that.

X2
This is a great point about super cheap normal males possibly being homed with people that don't want to spend a few hundred on housing a $10-15 animal.
Since few breeders are snapping up normal males this does seem to present an opportunity to anyone also selling/setting up racks or terrariums. i.e buy an appropriate enclosure and get a FREE introductory snake.
Sometimes we can lose sight of the fact that even wild-types are still good looking animals in the excitement of all the paintjobs.
That way you know the animal has a decent chance at being properly cared for, the person has invested (possibly through you or an affiliate) so will be inclined to continue looking after the animal. And, even if the end up addicted and breeding I'll bet most of us would still have "the normal that started it all" for us if that were our situation.

[Raven01]

Well up here in Canada we have roughly 1 dozen expos a year, and 1 major forum... they are all owned by the same guy. So if he chose to dictate the price of animals at his shows, or on his forum...well.... he probably could make a huge impact.

sure people would still sell for less on their won, but the mass exposure would be higher pricing.

What "mass exposure"?
If he did that I would stop going.
And, I bet I am not the only one.
Actually, that might get me even better prices since, I would develop a relationship with a few breeders so those less expensive snakes could find themselves just thrown in or greatly reduced after a few larger purchases.
Honestly, if someone buys a pair of $3k snakes off you and expressed interest in a pastel female hatchling or 2 can you tell me you wouldn't throw them in? Excluding of course special project "basic morphs" where you are trying to produce the highest quality or breed for exaggerated expression of certain morphs markers.


The line of thought you are endorsing is exactly why in Canada we have the worlds worst cellphone rates for the service we get.
Cartels and price-fixing is not the answer.
Breeding quality animals and setting what you consider a fair price is.

[JMinILM]

I see the same thing happening here in the states. I'm seeing pastels for $50 and spiders for the same. It stinks that it's happening but that's how the market is. But all I know is that when my babies start hatching from their eggs nothing is going to be sold for $50. I think normals are worth more than $50 so in my opinion no morph should ever be priced that low. But that's just my personal opinion. I can't understand how you feel about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

That is not based on any economic reality. The market will find equilibrium. Remember when builders could pay $40,000 to build a house and then sell it for $150,000? A ton of crappy houses got built everywhere. It took several years but the market corrected, prices fell fast, less houses were built and the market evened out again. Trying to stop market pricing might have a small effect for a little while, but in the end supply and demand will rule the day.