Another market question

[Boosh96]

I'm just wondering, I guess, but how do big BP breeders make a profit by selling their snakes? What I figured is that the ultra-mega-super high end BP's that are stupid-expensive probably don't often get sold to the general public. But do these snakes often get sold to the general public, or do they tend to change hands between breeders, or what exactly?

[Rickys_Reptiles]

Serious breeders sell to other serious breeders, or sell to slightly less serious breeders, or sell to slightly less serious breeders who sell to.....

[rickm]

big breeders profit simply because of the numbers of animals they are working with. even small breeders can make a good profit, if it is done correctly and they have good customer service. I believe the market direction is going to start changing though. with many of the once very expensive morphs becoming very affordable, it is leaning more toward the collector and hobbyists now. I also see people wanting to produce brighter colors and higher contrast. like Markus(from Markus Jayne ball pythons) told me not long ago on the phone(and I totally agree)...that their has been so much focus on washing out the colors and making faded out, and light pastel colored ball pythons, and there is so much of it out there now...I think that those who concentrate on making brighter colored, higher contrasting animals, are going to sell a lot of that type of animals. I do love the mystic potions, crystals, and other light washed out animals...I do strongly agree that when you see something like some of the enchi and orange dream combos, that are super bright oranges and have really dark, high contrasting patterns with them....are going to be a hot item....along with anything leopard...I also think leopard is a key ingredient to get these qualities out of an animal. big breeders have the genetics, money, and resources to give EVERYONE what they want, that is another reason they profit. but don't think that just because they are a 'big breeder', that it is all profit, because it is nothing like that. they spend TONS of money on feeding, caging, heating, ect....there is a lot more to it than most people realize. I think that is why so many people get into this hobby, and expect to make a bunch of money....they see the price tags on some of these animals and think, 'I am in the wrong business'...they do not realize that it takes a lot of money to get started, the animals, the caging, the food, the bedding, supplies....not to mention the fact that most of the initial money you do get from selling the first few babies, has to usually go right back into the collection. you may not see an actual profit for three to five years, if you do it correctly. then once you get to that point, you will be competing with guys like some of the 'big breeders' that have been doing this for many, many years. and if you are sitting at the table next to a 'big breeder', and you have the same animal for a little less money, you also have to realize that people will more than likely get the animals from the guy with an earned reputation and a bigger name.....there is a lot more to it than most people realize. big breeders make their money because of many years of hard work, and earning their reputations from years of high quality animals and very high quality customer service. most of these guys do this, because it is what they love and what they are passionate about...because I think most people would be surprised knowing that the profit may not be quite as high as most people think it is. I think a lot of these big breeders are just like the rest of us blue color folks, they have to bust their butts to keep the lights on too. and if they are anything like me, as soon as they make any profit...they buy into another project or get another animal that sucks that profit right down the drain, lol.

[Pythonfriend]

prices start out ridiculously high, and then they drop from season to season to season.

so yes, first the really big breeders have it, then the price drops, other breeders get in, prices drop further, and when its down to maybe 2000, the first amateur and hobby breeders start getting in, prices drop further, and then you reach the point when it becomes more and more available to the general public and even as a fancy pet BP.

how you make money is basically this: You buy something like a bamboo male hatchling for 12000 dollars. one season later, you breed him to 3 or 4 females, get eggs, the price will be down maybe at 7000 dollars, you still make a nice profit if you got 20 eggs and 10 of them are bamboo. if it doesnt work out, the male is still too young or didnt breed for whatever reason, you try one season later. then the price may be down to 4000 dollars, still enough to recoup your investment if you get 20 eggs, 10 of them bamboo.

it works the same way if you buy a gene for lets say 1000 dollars. one season later the price may be at 600, if you manage to breed it and get several hatchlings, its easy to make some profit. it works the same, just with fewer digits.

with recessives its basically the same, just much slower. the prices fall slower, and because you need to make hets and breed them back it may take 4 years or more until you have visuals to sell. by then, the price will have fallen, and you make up for it by producing and selling several of them.

[bcr229]

The more genes that are found, the more possible combos there are, especially once you get into 3 and 4 gene animals, and the number of possibilities grows exponentially. These animals won't get cheap simply because they're so difficult to produce. Also remember some genes that are kind of blah or hard to pick out as a single-gene (e.g. granite or specter) do amazing things in the super form or when combined with other genes, and once the amazing combo is discovered that blah single-gene animal suddenly becomes much more desirable.

Then you find something like scaleless, and should they prove viable, you know everyone is going to want their favorite morph(s) as a scaleless eventually.

On the other end are factors that push the price down, e.g. lethal combos or combos more likely to produce defects like the pearl (super champagne), champagne spider, spark spider, super cinnamon, super black pastel, the whole desert female breeding issue, etc. So, the big breeders playing with new genes can make some big money, but they take on a lot of risk as well. Then of course once a gene has been around for a long time, like the pastel or spider, everyone and his brother is breeding them and the price drops to the point where you practically give them away unless it's a very high-quality example of the morph.