Weaned rats + little under 400g

[Marrissa]

So I bought 50 F/T weaned rats months ago from Layne Labs. That's nine months of food when feeding every five days. I'm wondering when I should bump him up to two rats in a feeding? I weighed him a few weeks ago and he came in at 386g. When I go to get him out after a day or two of digesting, he sometimes goes into feed mode with his striking pose and showing a lot of interest in my hand. Once he figures out there's no rat he'll calm down. I'm wondering if he's not getting enough to eat with this schedule? According to the 15% rule (which I've read only applies to babies?) he needs about 58g. According to the LL website their weaned rats range from 30-40g. He definitely doesn't look underweight to me but I'm just wanting to be sure he's getting enough.

So would you feed two weaned rats on a weekly schedule, keep up with the same weaned rat every five day schedule, or do two weaned rats every five days? I feel like the last option is a lot. I need to use these weaned rats up before buying small rats.

[Simple Man]

If your snake will eat two weaned rats you can do that option. It isn't going to hurt him to have a few percentage points higher on a meal. I don't even weigh my rats. I just eyeball it. Sometimes they get bigger meals and sometimes they get smaller ones. It just depends on what my rodent racks have. Either way I think would be fine for your snake

Regards,

B

[Willie76]

Right now, I have a couple balls that are around that 400 gram mark and feed them a weaned every 7 days (Friday is snake feeding day). I usually up prey to a small rat 1x every 7-10 days around 500 grams. Feeding too much too often can be unhealthy for snakes. I would keep the 1x weaned rat every 5-7 days as you are doing until he reaches that 500 gram mark. If you have left over weaners and he'll take 2, then by all means feed two when he's 500+ grams. You may also want to find a frozen feeder company that sells in smaller amounts such as Loxahatchee Rodents (I am partial to them since that's all my snakes seem to enjoy! Clean, stated weights, and shipping is very reasonable).

If you are noticing feeding behavior at non feeding times, it might do you good to incorporate a snake hook into your husbandry. The hook really isn't to pick them up, but a way to tell them that it's not feeding time. When you want to hold or clean, open the enclosure, simply take your hook and "pet" or gently rub your snake's body to get them out of feeding mode and proceed to handle. Always remember to handle confidently and don't let his "display" scare you off. Obviously if he is in shed or that day or two after a meal is not a good time to hold or clean...

How often are you holding your snake? If all a person does is keep them locked up and only opens the cage to feed, then they will associate cage opening with feeding. They need that feeding and non-feeding time with you. By incorporating a hook, your snake will eventually realize: Tongs= food. Hook = No food. It's really Classical Conditioning (Pavlov) at it's finest.

[Eric Alan]

Sounds like you bought a few too many weaned rats for your one BP. No worries though - they'll definitely get eaten.

My two that are about the size of yours blew through the 3-400 range in about a month. One went from 277g to 407g in 26 days. The other went from 297g to 434g in 31 days. These are all weights while empty. This was on an every four day feeding schedule with f/t weaned rats between 39g and 45g. I have a large order of small rats on the way this week so I can step these two girls up.

My recommendation is to stick to the percentages for awhile. If that means needing to double up the rats at each feeding, then by all means do so. From my reading on here, I'm planning on sticking with the percentages until my girls are ~1000g. What I am doing now is backing down my biggest girl from every four days to once weekly. My next biggest girl I'll be doing the same with when she tells me she's ready. Not that I expect this to happen any time soon with her - she'd eat a rock if I put it in front of her on feeding day. I'll still be giving them the 10-15% at each feeding - just less feedings as they grow.

For you, if he continues to go into hunt mode a few days before feeding day, you could switch him from every five to every four until he tells you that it's time to slow down.

Hope this helps!

Eric

[jenna d]

Another alternative to using a hook is to try feeding your snake in a seperate tub. All of my snakes have seperate feeding tubs and they know to associate those tubs with food since that's where they get fed. Ive rarely had a problem with opening their tub in the rack and them initially thinking my hand is food, the few times they've showed some initial interest was only cuz I forgot to wash my hands after handling my rats so I smelled like food. But even then after about 2 seconds they got over it. I realize they have small brains and there is not alot of learning going on in there but I believe you can condition them to an extent.

[Marrissa]

Thanks Simple Man!

If you are noticing feeding behavior at non feeding times, it might do you good to incorporate a snake hook into your husbandry. The hook really isn't to pick them up, but a way to tell them that it's not feeding time. When you want to hold or clean, open the enclosure, simply take your hook and "pet" or gently rub your snake's body to get them out of feeding mode and proceed to handle. Always remember to handle confidently and don't let his "display" scare you off. Obviously if he is in shed or that day or two after a meal is not a good time to hold or clean...

How often are you holding your snake? If all a person does is keep them locked up and only opens the cage to feed, then they will associate cage opening with feeding. They need that feeding and non-feeding time with you. By incorporating a hook, your snake will eventually realize: Tongs= food. Hook = No food. It's really Classical Conditioning (Pavlov) at it's finest.

I hold him anywhere between 2-5 days a week. Sometimes for a few min, other times longer, sometimes several short sessions a day. I'm not worried about getting bit. He only does the feeding mode when I first go to the handle him after his digestion break. He's never struck without the rat scent being there. He just gets in striking pose and tracks my hand sometimes. I just sit and wait until he realizes that it's not feeding time and pick him up when he relaxes. Takes maybe ten seconds or so. I just think a snake hook is really unnecessary for him. He's never been the least bit aggressive, just very food excited. I'm not at all concerned about him showing a feeding response because of the last time I opened the door was for food. Makes sense to me.

Thank you for the feed amount advice.

Sounds like you bought a few too many weaned rats for your one BP. No worries though - they'll definitely get eaten.

My two that are about the size of yours blew through the 3-400 range in about a month. One went from 277g to 407g in 26 days. The other went from 297g to 434g in 31 days. These are all weights while empty. This was on an every four day feeding schedule with f/t weaned rats between 39g and 45g. I have a large order of small rats on the way this week so I can step these two girls up.

My recommendation is to stick to the percentages for awhile. If that means needing to double up the rats at each feeding, then by all means do so. From my reading on here, I'm planning on sticking with the percentages until my girls are ~1000g. What I am doing now is backing down my biggest girl from every four days to once weekly. My next biggest girl I'll be doing the same with when she tells me she's ready. Not that I expect this to happen any time soon with her - she'd eat a rock if I put it in front of her on feeding day. I'll still be giving them the 10-15% at each feeding - just less feedings as they grow.

For you, if he continues to go into hunt mode a few days before feeding day, you could switch him from every five to every four until he tells you that it's time to slow down.

Hope this helps!

Eric

Yep you're spot on with that first sentence. This being my first snake, I didn't know how long he'd stay eating on weaned for and didn't want to buy half smalls and come to find out he wasn't big enough for them yet. I wasn't sure how quickly a consistent eater gains weight. Thank you for the advice and sharing what you do with your animals.

Another alternative to using a hook is to try feeding your snake in a seperate tub. All of my snakes have seperate feeding tubs and they know to associate those tubs with food since that's where they get fed. Ive rarely had a problem with opening their tub in the rack and them initially thinking my hand is food, the few times they've showed some initial interest was only cuz I forgot to wash my hands after handling my rats so I smelled like food. But even then after about 2 seconds they got over it. I realize they have small brains and there is not alot of learning going on in there but I believe you can condition them to an extent.

I don't think his feeding response/mode thing is an issue at all. He's never struck at me and is never cage aggressive. I think feeding in his cage is better than moving him to a tub. Unnecessary stress for him when I can just slide the glass open, he eats in his home, and goes back into hiding when he's done.



Seems like there really is no set guide when it comes to BPs of this range. Thank you for the advice on feeding everyone. Kinda hard to decide which to go with with so many different options/opinions.

[Eric Alan]

Seems like there really is no set guide when it comes to BPs of this range.

QFT

I'm very analytic and logical when it comes to approaching pretty much everything (which is why I measure every meal and keep an excel spreadsheet of everything from feedings to urates). It makes me feel more comfortable and prepared having a plan going in. Having said that, the biggest thing I've seen with my girls in the last few months is that they'll tell me what they need when they need it - I just need to learn to recognize it and adjust accordingly.

Eric