Wobble Head??

[wmach22]

Hey everyone, I just heard of this term today, and it seems to diagnose why my ball has severe kind of like convulsions, where his head will just flip, kinda like he is striking but not actually biting. I showed a video to a good friend who breeds snakes and said that wobble is what it seems to be, he said it is common in Spider Morphs, however my ball is just a regular, no morph ball as far as I know...Is this syndrome mainly for Spider Morphs or can it be throughout any breed? He is eight years old, and it only started in the spring/summer of 2012 where he will have episodes, he is eating however and loves being left to rest in his hide which is good. I would just like some more feedback about wobble and maybe some other handler's experiences. Thanks a plenty!!

[Slitherous]

Hey everyone, I just heard of this term today, and it seems to diagnose why my ball has severe kind of like convulsions, where his head will just flip, kinda like he is striking but not actually biting. I showed a video to a good friend who breeds snakes and said that wobble is what it seems to be, he said it is common in Spider Morphs, however my ball is just a regular, no morph ball as far as I know...Is this syndrome mainly for Spider Morphs or can it be throughout any breed? He is eight years old, and it only started in the spring/summer of 2012 where he will have episodes, he is eating however and loves being left to rest in his hide which is good. I would just like some more feedback about wobble and maybe some other handler's experiences. Thanks a plenty!!

Accurate description of my spider female's behavior and feeding response. She knows food is there, (smell/heat?), and jerks her head fitfully around responding to it, but then she strikes wildly, usually missing several times before finally latching on, (she eats like a 'lil piggy though, I just have to be patient with her). I've often wondered if that particular behavior wasn't somehow related to vision, (or lack thereof perhaps?), as opposed to being a genetic "tick" as many believe. Why it seems to be common in spiders I have no idea, and whether that trait can occur in a "normal" or not I really don't know either. However, I suppose it's possible you got a normal snake that possibly had one spider parent, (which would produce 50/50 normal/spider...I think), and it somehow got the shake but not the looks of a spider. I have a normal male which came from a breeder who mixed his babies up and couldn't remember which pair the parents were, so I don't really know what is hiding in his genes, (a "dinker" I suppose, but I know he came from a morph/normal breeding). Good question for those fluent in morph-speak, but unfortunately that isn't me. I just had to respond because you described my spazzy girl-spider almost perfectly.

S

[Pythonfriend]

i think the eyes have nothing to do with it, for one reason: Blind snakes, born eyeless, manage to strike at their prey on the first try or maybe the second try. The heat pits give very good data on direction and distance of the food item. Blind snakes also dont tilt their head sideways. i think snakes have eyes mainly to watch out for predators that come from above, not for hunting.


so it sonds like neuro wobble to me.

what is unusual is that the snake is 8 years old and suddenly developed the issue only in 2012, and doesnt carry any genes known to cause the typical wobble.

Maybe the snake had a stroke, or some incident where the brain didnt get enough oxygen, or some infection that damaged the brain?

[wmach22]

Thanks guys for your responses. Slitherous, I have never thought of that even as being possible, when it comes to morph breeding I'm very new to it, so ill definitely have my friends explain more of that, and also he is the same way when it comes to eating, it takes him some time to actually find the rat (pre killed) and his head shakes in between strikes, but as far as his bred parents the thing is I've had him for three years but before me a previous owner had him for five. So idk maybe he never mentioned it just to get rid of him, which the thought of that makes me a little irritated, not because I have him now but that the previous owner isn't patient with him. And Kurtilien as far as a stroke I don't want to say that's completely wrong because it is a very possible thing to happen, but it's hard to think that could be the case when his tank is a screen top lid, where the air flows freely, I will be looking into that too along with his past breeding, I'm mainly just wanting some answer that can get me to understand him more, I want to take him out as much as I can, it's just that when he has his fits, the way his body convulses I don't want him to hurt himself or be stressed, so he is in his cage more that I like. I just mainly feel bad for him, but like I said he is eating and still active in his cage and very healthy. Thank you guys so much for your feedbacks and I will definitely look into them both more.

[anwhit]

My two cents, if it gets worse or persists, I would take him to the vet, considering he is 8 and just developing these symtoms. I know that some young ones, (including mine), could have a bit of a wobble but it goes away between 6 months to a year as they build up muscle tone. I'm only concerned because of his age really. That's just personally what I would do.

[Pythonfriend]

wmach22, you mentioned you have video footage of your snake behaving strangely? Could you share that?

many people here are very familiar with genetic wobble.

what bugs me is that the most frequently used genes that can cause the wobble are very visible, like spider or champaigne or woma. they dont look anything like a normal BP, far from it.

of course stroke isnt a likely thing, and i didnt mean stroke caused by lack of oxygen necessarily, and didnt want to indicate you did anything wrong. im just trying to think about what could cause brain damage later in life, and really, it could be anything. humans can get brain damage from 5-10 minutes without oxygen, or from eating meat infected by a fungus that produces a neurotoxin, from a variety of infectious diseases, or from brain cancer, or from stroke. and strokes can be caused by any injury.

Maybe visiting a professional vet that is knowledgeable about reptiles is the best idea, this is hard to pin down. i see 3 main options: either its genetic, but then, why does the snake look like a normal? or it had the issue as a baby, then went to normal for many years, and now the issue is coming back. or something happened recently that caused brain damage, and as i said, it could be so many things that its hard to pin it down.

Anyway, good luck! I hope your snake gets better, recovery from neuro damage or brain damage is possible but takes months, nerves recover very slowly. But chances of it getting better totally depend on what caused it in the first place.

[Slitherous]

You didn't use the word "convulses" before, and that makes it sound more like some kind of a seizure than a persistent genetic wobble, (like spiders). I agree with anwhit, it might not be a bad idea to visit a vet, (preferably a certified exotic vet familiar with reptilian physiology). Of course, if the snake is eating and showing no other signs of disease you might just leave well enough alone and see what happens. If it were an exotic and expensive morph it might be well worth the vet visit, but if it's just a normal pet-quality snake you have to weigh the benefits against the expense. If the snake is eating it is likely not suffering, it might be unpleasant to watch but if it has a normal appetite it is probably ok.

S

[SlitherinSisters]

Only snakes with the spider gene in them, ie spiders, bumble bees, spinners, etc. Have you ever put a hand warmer with that snake? Hand warmers give off a toxin that will make any snake wobble like a spider, and as far as I know it never goes away.

[angllady2]

I also know that heat related brain damage will make a snake wobble and convulse. I have a baby het pied who suffers from this. Sudden onset of symptoms make me think this might be a possibility. What kind of heat source do you use? How do you regulate it? Have you had any issues with that heat source before?

Since you state this began in the spring/summer, is it at all possible that it may have been a heat related problem? Even a short time at high temps can cause permanent brain damage.

To be certain I highly recommend a vet visit, if for no reason than to rule out something curable.

Gale

[Pythonfriend]

Only snakes with the spider gene in them, ie spiders, bumble bees, spinners, etc. Have you ever put a hand warmer with that snake? Hand warmers give off a toxin that will make any snake wobble like a spider, and as far as I know it never goes away.

thats a strong statement, what kinds of hand warmers are you referring to?

i know two kinds of re-useable hand warmers. One is basically a zippo morph, it has a burning flame somewhere inside it and burns fossil-based fuel. Of course it gives off carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, also a malfunction can cause it to get very hot and it can cause a fire.
The second re-useable form would be these silicone things with a liquid and a small metal trigger inside, these re-useables are fine i think, unless a snake bites them open.