Black pastels and cinnamons have gene problems?

[MrLang]

So I have this friend. This friend has a pewter that wheezes also. It's totally healthy. I think it's completely reasonable to say that since there is a known issue where the super versions die in the egg, hatch with cleft lips, duckbills, etc. that the single gene version may have some kind of minute snout issues that don't affect the overall health of the animal but might occasionally make whistling or other sounds when the animal breathes hard due to stress of handling or feeding.

I know Kevin McCurley doesn't work with Super Cinnamon because 'he has bad luck with duckbilling and lip problems.' Perhaps this issue only affects certain lines? Either way, posting 'my animals are all healthy' isn't really adding value to the thread. It's a known issue... we shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist just because we don't have animals exhibiting the problem ourselves.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Both of my black pastels "whistle". Neither of them are sick. I assume it's sort of the one-gene version of the duckbilling, that their noses are shaped a little differently. Neither the cinny I hatched this year or her cinny pewter mom whistle.

I had a female black pastel that I produced that like that also, you could hear the whistle, from the day she hatched still doing it I am sure. Always ate great, healthy as a horse and I never had any issue with her.

The sire that produced her was fine and I now have 2 black pewters and I have not noticed any whistle from them never did from any other black pewter I produced.

Is it a fluke with that animal? Is it because it is a black pastel? Is it because the nasal cavity is different, is it because she is stressed? who know? I surely do not.

I don't work with super for two reason 1# I don't care for them 2#Higher risk of deformed animals.

[MarkS]

I've had several snakes that will start breathing heavily when they get nervous, this is often audible as 'wheezing'. There is nothing physically wrong with them, it's just the snake version of hyperventilating. Once they calm down (usually when I put them back in their cage and they can't see me anymore) no more noise. The snakes that I've had this issue with were all normals. I've got several cinnamon's and a black pastel and none of them make these noises, but they also don't seem to be overly concerned with my presence and remain calm when I'm around.

[MrLang]

My friend will definitely be breeding the pewter, but probably won't pair it with any other animal with a cinnamon gene due to the whistling.

[Dave Green]

Either way, posting 'my animals are all healthy' isn't really adding value to the thread. It's a known issue... we shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist just because we don't have animals exhibiting the problem ourselves.

So, the fact that I probably have a dozen cinnamon combos (plus what I've produced) and they don't have any issues isn't adding value to this thread? There are known issues with the supers but I haven't seen any issues in the base morph or the combos.

[1nstinct]

My black pastel have a few problems.1) he wants to bite me every chance I get,2) he's always hungry. Other than that nothing he's 100% healthy. I do plan to do a albino black pastel x albino black pastel breeding in the future.

[MrLang]

So, the fact that I probably have a dozen cinnamon combos (plus what I've produced) and they don't have any issues isn't adding value to this thread? There are known issues with the supers but I haven't seen any issues in the base morph or the combos.

What I meant was, he is asking if people have had experience with issues in the single gene. I don't know what % of the time the single genes or supers have issues, but I'm thinking if everyone responded there would be 99 responses of 'my animals are fine' which might make it difficult to sift out or draw conclusions from the 1 response that says they have experienced some issue.

'No value' was definitely the wrong way to phrase that. It's still statistically valuable... it just doesn't address the known issue the OP is looking for information on.

I wonder if people who have experienced issues with the super form have also noticed their single gene cinnys having problems? This would support it being line-specific, in which case noting that the single genes, combos, or supers not having issues would be more valuable.

[Evildrdee]

I have 2 with black pastel. My female black pastel calico had a long nose and a almost dimpled snout between her nostrils, no whistle. As she has aged her face has smoothed out and looks nice.

As for my onxy boy, his face was and is still a bit of a mess. He has the long face with a pinched duckbill. His lower jaw doesnt always sit right and even, but may have something to do with wide open mouth striking at the glass when Im near. I remember a whistle the first two weeks or so I had him. Doesnt whistle now at all.

I agree that making super blacks and cinnys are a bad idea if you have less than perfect snakes. I am sure that my two above may make for some heartache at hatch time. I will probably not ever breed these guys. He is better mixed with strong genes

[RichieBoo]

This post just helped me out.....My Black Pastel has whistled since the day i got her and never could find anything wrong with her....2 years now...

[eatgoodfood]

My male black pastel whistles, I only notice it during handeling or when hes moving around alot. I have had him almost two years. No other issues with him.