Why live??

[satomi325]

I feed live because it's easier and cheaper. I also enjoy breeding and playing with them. They're fun to be around, which doesn't make taking care of them seem like a chore.
I breed pet quality rats. 2-3 sold dumbos or dumbo rexes a month will pay for the entire month's worth of supplies, which is about $30.
And because the rats are essentially paying for themselves, my snakes are eating for free (aside from my own time and effort to manage the colony. But cleaning takes about 20 minutes once a week - much faster than thawing out frozen imo)

It's just easy for me to just go to a rack, pick out what I want for feeding day then proceed to go around the rack to feed the snakes. I drop one rat in a tub and move on to the next. When I hear a rat squeal, I know a snake has it coiled. I open that tub and check to see if the snake has a good grip or not. If the feeder is in a position to bite, I just stick a chop stick in it's mouth until it passes. If a snake doesn't eat within 30 minutes, I collect the feeder and return it back to the colony to be saved for the next week. No wasted food. If a snake doesn't eat f/t, I personally wouldn't like to refreeze it. Either way though, none of my snakes take f/t. Perhaps a handful of my most aggressive feeders will MIGHT take it, but for the most part, the 90% of my ball pythons will not take f/t. And it just seems troublesome to feed half f/t and half live when I could just do one way each time.


If someone had, for example, 60+ snakes. Thawing out and zombie dancing 60+ rats would be a pain. It would take hours. I think if someone had only 2 or 3 snakes or something, f/t would be the best and cheapest. But for larger collections, live seems to be the most efficient time and cost wise.

There are pros and cons to both F/T and live. Both can be safe and equally dangerous.
But people should pick which ever method works best for them.



Some responsible live feeding tips:

1) Feed the appropriate size food. I like smaller and more frequent meals than larger and less often. Weanlings and small rats are safe and harmless(to some extent). ThThey're also not as conscious to danger as an adult would be. Adult rats can pack a nasty bite and are much stronger at fighting back, which is why "smaller and more frequent" is the way to go. I feed all of my adults weaned/small rats once a week. And multiple smalls for the big girls. A live medium size would be the max appropriate size for a ball python.

2) Keep the feeder well fed and hydrated. They're less likely to see your snake as food. Hungry rats are dangerous rats. They will eat your snake if left unattended for extended periods of time. This is the reason for most snake killing incidences.

3) Don't dangle the live feeder. This puts them in panic mode. A freaked out feeder is a dangerous feeder. Gently place the feeder into your enclosure. Calm feeders are good.

4) Monitor your feedings and keep a tool, such as tongs, on hand to assist your snake in case the feeder tries to bite down. I use a chop stick to stick in the feeder's mouth if its in a bad position.

5) Don't keep the feeder in with your snake longer than 30 mins max or so. Some people have a shorter time frame. If he doesn't eat within that time frame, take out the feeder and save it for next week.

Still don't get how maintaining a colony of live is less of a pita than spending a little bit of time to thaw things out once a week. To each their own.

Takes me 20 minutes or less to clean a 6 tub rack.

In regards to safe and easy, and while I like to avoid argument, no accidents ever happening? Really? So you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that every time your animals constrict there is no room for a bite or two?

I get that it's what works for you and that's fine, but blanket statements like that are silly.

Nothing is risk free. Even f/t.
However, there are methods to reduce that risk. (examples stated above)

Another question, what about rats fed to quarantine animals? If they refuse to you kill off the feeder and freeze/dispose of it?

Just curious.

Rats can come out of the same stock. But if a QT snake doesn't eat, the feeder cannot be returned to the colony. It has the possibility to contaminate the other rats, thus the rest of the snakes.
Personally, I just set up a small tub in the QT room to leave uneaten rats to be saved for next week. Or I just feed the rat to my ferrets. :\

[SylverTears]

satomi 325 has a good point, I have never thought of it that way..

[snakesRkewl]

I love feeding live only and have for many thousands of feedings with no issues except a few minor bites that healed right up.

It wouldn't surprise me that if you took a 1000 snake example and tracked them over a 2-3 year period from hatchling on up you would find "on average" that live feeders eat more consistently and are larger at 2 years old than F/T eaters.

[SlitherinSisters]

It's easier/faster. I feed some of my f/t because my rat colony can't keep up with how many rats I have, but most of my snakes get live. Injuries don't happen as often as you think if you follow the right precautions. In 5 years of feeding live I've only had 1 bite that I cleaned and I put ointment on to be on the safe side.

[piedmad]

Some interesting and varied replies guys, thanks. Just like to say, i dont quite get this "zombie dancing". I'm lucky if I actually get it in the tub before they smash it. I suposse we find it "strange" most of you guys feed live because live feeding over here is seen as not neccesary unless thats all they will take and its kinda frowned upon if anyone feeds live just because they can, plus we can be prosecuted in some cases if they think the prey animal has suffered in any way.Also no pet shop by law can sell you a live vertebrate for a live food item for another animal. I also dont buy the "its what they eat in the wild" as they dont get water bowls with nice clean water in the wild either, or a nice clean heated tub/viv to live in, in the wild. Any 1 live prey can seriously damage your snake in 1 second or 1 hour, personally i have no need to take the risk of potentially harming my animals. Not saying live feeding is wrong, just it really is not neccesary most of the time, but if you are happy to feed live, thats all that matters really. But thanks for your replies makes things a lot clearer.

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Some interesting and varied replies guys, thanks. Just like to say, i dont quite get this "zombie dancing". I'm lucky if I actually get it in the tub before they smash it. I suposse we find it "strange" most of you guys feed live because live feeding over here is seen as not neccesary unless thats all they will take and its kinda frowned upon if anyone feeds live just because they can, plus we can be prosecuted in some cases if they think the prey animal has suffered in any way.Also no pet shop by law can sell you a live vertebrate for a live food item for another animal. I also dont buy the "its what they eat in the wild" as they dont get water bowls with nice clean water in the wild either, or a nice clean heated tub/viv to live in, in the wild. Any 1 live prey can seriously damage your snake in 1 second or 1 hour, personally i have no need to take the risk of potentially harming my animals. Not saying live feeding is wrong, just it really is not neccesary most of the time, but if you are happy to feed live, thats all that matters really. But thanks for your replies makes things a lot clearer.

[Blubb]

I can imagine breeding your own rats would be more efficient if you have a big collection of snakes to feed. I actually bred my own rats, but it wasn't really necessary since I only have 4 snakes atm. Got a HUGE overload of rats I eventually had to put in the freezer, which means I had to feed F/T anyway. If you have a good ventilation rat room, rat racks and many snakes, feeding live may be something for you.

[eatgoodfood]

Some interesting and varied replies guys, thanks. Just like to say, i dont quite get this "zombie dancing". I'm lucky if I actually get it in the tub before they smash it. I suposse we find it "strange" most of you guys feed live because live feeding over here is seen as not neccesary unless thats all they will take and its kinda frowned upon if anyone feeds live just because they can, plus we can be prosecuted in some cases if they think the prey animal has suffered in any way.Also no pet shop by law can sell you a live vertebrate for a live food item for another animal. I also dont buy the "its what they eat in the wild" as they dont get water bowls with nice clean water in the wild either, or a nice clean heated tub/viv to live in, in the wild. Any 1 live prey can seriously damage your snake in 1 second or 1 hour, personally i have no need to take the risk of potentially harming my animals. Not saying live feeding is wrong, just it really is not neccesary most of the time, but if you are happy to feed live, thats all that matters really. But thanks for your replies makes things a lot clearer.

I guess I will never be moving to England like I have considered, crazy that its illegal to sell live feeders. It seems common practice here in Germany, or at least with the group of breeders I know, to feed live. My monitor gets live, my snakes get live, my cat gets frozen thawed chicks, because, well, feeding live to a cat would not be so nice, since they play with their food. I would waste so many frozen thawed if thats what I fed. Some of my snakes will take 2 or 3 mice or rats one week, then only 1 the next or none. Now that its winter half of them are not eating at all. I still offer, and what then, that animals life went to waste when I have to throw it in the trash because it was not eaten. I think that is far more sad than the little a rodent might suffer while being constricted and eaten.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

And to this question I will ask why not?

Sure this all gonna turn into yet another live vs f/t debate (pretty sure) but the bottom line is that is done properly and responsibly both can be done safely just like if not done responsibly both can be dangerous, yes even f/t.

to me feeding is about being knowledgeable responsible and feeding what work best for your animal and what is convenient for you.

I used to feed f/t exclusively when I had 10 snakes or less and was not yet breeding, at the time I did not wish to breed feeder and with a small collection it was not much of a hassle.

Now with the size of my collection and the fact that I hatch snakes I feed live most exclusively, it is convenient and very cost effective since I breed my own feeders it is also very important for me to have live available since I breed snakes.

The key with feeding live is to feed rodents that are not over-sized, well hydrated and well fed prior to being fed and remove any un-eaten rodents within 20 minutes.

I do still feed a few f/t to some animals that will take it but that's only if I have surplus of rats during the winter (this way no waste).

[piedmad]

Thats the UK for ya. You can breed your own to feed live(although its frowned upon unless thats all they will take, then you are to be seen as "keeping the snake alive" which is ok. If you own a pet shop and have a pet shop licence you are not allowed by law to sell a live mouse or rat etc knowing it is going to be fed to another animal live.Obviously crickets etc dont count(dont know why, they are still a living creature) So yeah its a bit strange here.

[piedmad]

There really was not any live v F/T point in the thread. AS being in the Uk F/T is what most do, so i just wondered why things are different across the pond.Obviously you have different laws and regulations to us.