Breeding and losing track of fun and purpose

[hungba]

I recently read a lot of threads about the desert morph, saying that the female is a "useless" animal. I understand this because they can't (or shouldn't) be bred, due to the problems this creates of the eggs and the safety of the animal. But I personally find it quite disheartening to constantly hear the words "worthless pet animals".

I remember 6 years ago, when I got my first ball python, a NORMAL MALE. I loved him as much as love itself. I then was introduced to breeding (with yet no interest in doing so) and talked to various friends who bred snakes to see what morphs would make a nice pet (I remember lesser was my favorite). They talked pretty much like I talked now, about how much the offspring would sell for, about certain snakes like "Ivories" looking great, but not worth it because there isn't much to do in terms of breeding (I don't necessarily agree with this but their point was there was nothing much you could do to it and it just adds the YB gene to your collection). Some animals were worth a lot but looked like normals which I didn't understand at the time, everything was an ongoing pursuit of breed breed breed. I talked to a guy at a reptile show about a lavender albino, and he told me of the difference in price of male and female due to "usefulness". I didn't understand at the time. He asked me what I wanted to breed. I said I just wanted one as a pet. He was very surprised that anyone would want that and suspected me that I was lying in order to haggle on price.

I told him at the time, everyone seems to be in this ongoing pursuit of breeding breeding breeding, and never stop for a moment to enjoy the animals themselves. After all, why would there be any value in the morphs/combos themselves, if people weren't initially interested in keeping great looking animals as pets?

Now, a few years later, I am breeding myself. It's only been a year, but I am already talking and thinking like that. Now, Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with it. In fact, I think it's fantastic that people are working hard to get new morphs and combos going. It's great and it is what I am striving for myself. However, sometimes I think we should just stop for a moment, take a deep breath, and just look at the animals' beauty and appreciate them for what they are. My breeders are my pets too, not just "investments". I even have a male green iguana that I raised from baby to now almost 6 feet long and he isn't worth anything monetarily, yet I love him a lot.

I understand the danger of people breeding animals with problems in that regard, but that is more a matter of education and letting people know. The whole principle that "pet animals" are worthless just doesn't seem right to me.

But of course that is just my opinion. I don't even know why I shared that! LOL!

[rlditmars]

I agree with you. But unfortunately in todays society, God is green and carries the picture of a president. Worth, in most instances is associated with a monitary value. So the things in life that can't make people money are deemed "worthless". You can't change that without changing society's value system. Good luck with that. Rememebr you are dealing with a race that will pay a high school drop out $23,000,000 because he can hit da ball far, while paying a person with 8 to 12 years of medical school, and the ability to remove a cancerous tumor from your brain, an average of $600,000 annually.

[TessadasExotics]

The difference is this.


When you are breeding, be it in pursuit of the morph of your dreams or to fund new or current projects. We are trying to make some kind of profit. Lets face it, it takes money to support this hobby of ours. We as breeders should also be taking the responsibility to better the bloodlines and health of our animals. (We should not be line breeding(unless proving out a new animal), inbreeding or promoting it. Selling clutch mate pairs does just that) I have said it before also that Desert females are useless pets. They are. Now don't get me wrong, they are beautiful ball pythons. We will get into deserts at some point I am sure, as they are beautiful. That being said.......Deserts are just WAY over priced. Why would anyone in their right mind spend anywhere near 1k for a male? Any females made will not sell, if they do its going to be for near normal prices. I am sure its rather hard to sell males to. Not many people are going to want to spend the time and or money into a project that isn't going to go anywhere or make any money. Like I said our hobby needs to be sustained some how. If you can't make money with your projects, it is a whole lot harder to miantain them.

[h00blah]

For some people, this is a business. You think Brian Barcyk can tell you about each personality of every snake he has? No way.. He can't just take them out and play with them or handle them. His snakes are like other people's merchandise. You must ensure you have top quality merchandise, and with animals, it means healthy and stress-free animals. They're not really his "pets". Whenever I see someone type that so and so is useless, I assume they mean as far as breeding is concerned. Not many people do normal x normal. Especially since some morphs are as cheap as a normal male.

I agree that people should take a second to enjoy their animals, and I think they do.. Some of the bigger breeders still post pictures of their stuff, and they take some fantastic photos! That must take a really long time to set up and wait for a nice pose! To me, that's part of the joy of owning these snakes. Showing them off is half the fun! I don't think I've seen anyone blatantly show their lack of excitement for their animals. Quite the opposite actually .

[Marissa@MKmorphs]

I understand what you mean about the value of animals and how some are deemed "worthless" but every animal I own gets handled weekly and gets treated like any other pet. Yes, I do plan on breeding them to help offset the cost of buying new animals and the cost of keeping them.

[1nstinct]

I agree with you that it's bad that a lot of people just see the money that can be made and that is all they think about, but those are also the people that usually get burnt out and sell the full collection in a few years because they didn't realize the amount of time, work, and money that need to be invested to have a successful business in the reptile industry. But on the business side of it is pointless to have desert females. A lot if people rely on ball python breedings to support their families, and pay the bills. I think Brandon ozborne said it, he would hate to invest 10,000+ on a female to later find out it had desert in it, which would have cost him money to raise it up, and space that could have been used for a different project, plus the initial cost of the snake. If I had the money and space I would have a desert male, and with any females produced would live their lives out with me in a rack and when they get adult size would get moved into a nice cages and have them as amazing display animals. But the truth is i do not have the space or money to be able to keep all the possible desert females possible produced, which is why until I can i will not get a desert male. Would I get a desert female, yes i would she would be i a cage next to my PH albino female(which many breeders would consider useless as far as breeding goes). As far as calling them worthless, I do not like that word because nothing is life is worthless, everything has a purpose. I'm sure if desert females dropped in price to $100-200 they would sell because you would get people who would love to just have them as nice display animals. I know I would pick up a desert female for $200 if i had the room for it knowing very well she may never reproduce.
I truly hope someone figures out a way to get the to lay viable eggs, that way we can all just have a great laugh at the old desert post. In reality we might never see a desert lay viable eggs, but I will still have some hope that someone can figure a way to make it happen.