BP viv project - and other questions

[Nim]

I've got a beautiful normal BP male, Nim, that I picked up recently at Repticon from a local breeder. His current tank set-up is pretty ghetto. I didn't do as much research as I should have(didn't know they needed belly heat vs. ambient).





He's currently in a standard 10 gallon screen top aquarium tank. An insufficient water dish(big enough for him to lay in....but not without spilling most of the water). Two hides, a half log that's a smidge too big for him that he never uses, and a half length paper-towel tube that he loves. I've covered the top screen to hold humidity, 1/2 taped with foil, and 1/4 covered with a folded towel that I have to soak daily. For heat...the tank is sitting on-top of an old home entertainment system tuner(that supplies sound from my computer or the radio, hehe), I do have the tank sitting ~1/4 off of the tuner to give it a cool area. I also have a Night Red heat lamp that is heating up the basking surfaces and ambient temperature, as well as providing nocturnal light at all times.


To keep the humidity up I've also got a makeshift humidifier cup(little tumbler full of water, covered in plastic wrap with a hole in it, held in place with a rubber band) under the heat lamp, to keep the humidity at 50%+ according to my cheap Petco brand sticky hydrometer.




He is eating regularly each week when I feed him. Hides often in his paper-towel tube(which I gather is a healthy and happy behavior). He actively "explores" his tank at least twice a day. I've only had him for a month now(today will be his 4th feeding, under my care), so I'm not sure how regular his waste secretion should be, but I have "cleaned up" after him a couple times. He is even getting used to handling, kinda restless and likes to wander but not as skiddish as when I first started picking him up. Even with all this good behavior, I know that the living situation isn't ideal and needs to change.


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I just recently purchased a 55 gallon long aquarium tank(standard 4' x 1' x 2'), and I'm currently cleaning it. It only cost me $50 for the tank with a stand, but it had some major hard water stains and it looks like there is mold creeping under the silicone. With most of the hard water stains gone, I'm getting ready to re-silicone it. Before I do that I'm wanting to section off a 1' x 1' area with a piece of plexi-glass to use as a pond(for humidity and drinking water), I've already got a filter/pump to circulate the water(standard standing pump for turtles or DIY waterfalls). I'm currently debating on how "big" to make the pond. I've calculated it out a 12" x 12" x 4" area to be roughly 2.5 gallons, that should be more than plenty to keep the snake hydrated, humidity in the air, and soaking room...but is it too much, or plenty of room that the snake can grow into. Do I have to worry about drowning? Maybe adding some pebble/river-stone type ground cover to raise the surface level of the bottom?





One change that I know I'd like to make is switching from aspen bedding to eco earth. Main reasons being less risk of impaction during feeding and humidity retention. One tip I read about, that I'd like to explore is adding salt to the eco earth when hydrating it to prevent mold/mildew growth(I don't plan on using live plants so that won't be an issue), but I'm curious if it'll effect the snake any or what a safe ratio of salt to eco earth would be?


I think my biggest question about the eco earth is heat retention. Do UTH's need to be set higher for the heat to transfer through, based on the thickness? Or would UTH + Overhead heat be enough? I plan on getting a UTH that can cover at least 1/2 if not 3/4 of the bottom surface area, as well as still using the Night Red light I have. I'd also like to setup a day light that's on a timer to simulate regular day/night cycles.




I've been having trouble deciding on what type of hides to use though.


/rant on
After some research into the natural hides that are sold by most retail stores(PetCo/PetSmart), they're not actually safe for most of not all animals not just reptiles. The half log that I have is made of Douglas Fir which is in the pine family(if I'm not mistaken). Before buying the half log, I purchased a small hide meant for small rodents, perfect size for my snake...it's made of untreated pine. All "pine" woods contain phenols that are toxic, and prolonged exposure can cause brain damage and respiratory issues(in all animals, not just reptiles and rodents). You can test to see if the wood has been kiln dried or not by taking a few drops of water to a section of the wood, letting is soak in, and then sniff it...if it has that distinct pungent "piney" smell, its toxic to your animal.
/rant off


That being the case, with the exception of drift wood or real stone/rock, I haven't been able to find any "natural" hides. Currently Nim is loving the cardboard paper-towel tubes, but if I'm going to switch to eco earth I'm assuming they will get soggy real quick. Trying to think of an alternative, but the only thing that comes to mind is PVC, full cylinder sections or "half-log" type sections. Any thoughts on that?




Still not sure on how I will setup the lids, the tank didn't come with one when I purchased it(I did get it off of craigslist, not surprised there though). I'm perfectly fine with DIY solutions, and/or store bought, but I don't want it to cost an arm and a leg.




I found some great online resources for supplies, and I'll add a list of links for a few of the things I'm planning on picking up for this project below.


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$15-35 - Ultratherm UTH(they're out of the 11" x 23" one that I want, but they're cheaper and come in different sizes than the ZooMed/Zilla ones)


$32 - Zilla Reptile Electronic Temperature Controller


$9 - AcuRite Digital Humidity and Temperature Monitor(I'm not sure if this will be sufficient, but I plan on getting at least two)


$5 - Zoo Med Eco Earth® Coconut Substrate 3-pk(just because it's three for the price that I can get one for in a store)


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Any and all help would be much appreciated, thank you in advance.


**Also, sorry about the wall of text. I have been trying to do as much reading and research before posting something, and I'm starting to become really passionate about it...

[The Serpent Merchant]

For starters a 50 gallon is way too big for a young BP, the absolute biggest I would go is a 24 x 24 inch cage.

If you intend on having the pond be the snakes water dish just say no. You need to give your snake fresh water every few days and having it in a non-removable container will be a nightmare (the filter isn't enough) further BP's don't need a water dish big enough to soak in. The largest water dishes that I use are 8" diameter. As long as your humidity is in the proper ranges your snake shouldn't be soaking unless something is wrong. If it is too deep there is a risk of drowning.

When using any substrate a UTH will have to be set higher than if you are using something like paper towels. UTH's can only function if the substrate is 1/2" thick or less. Any more and they make the floor of the cage too hot to be safe.

Screen top: http://www.thatpetplace.com/screen-c...ey_id=26447074

These are the best hides out there: http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

Ultratherms are great, but zilla reptile temperature controllers are junk. Don't waste your money on these. Here are some good thermostats. avoid thermostats sold in petstores as they are overpriced junk.

Budget: http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

Mid-Range: http://www.reptilebasics.com/ranco-etc-111000-pre-wired

Best: http://spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html

Keep in mind that UTH's do NOT increase the temperature of the air in the cage. this means that if the room that the cage is in drops below 75 degrees a heat lamp or Ceramic Heat Emitter will be necessary to keep the air temperatures up. (50 gallon tanks are near impossible to easily keep proper temperatures and humidity in)

That acu-rite model isn't what you want, you need a probed thermometer. This acu-rite model would be much better:



I strongly suggest that you read these 2 threads, and look into other cages. I personally like PVC reptile cages (pictured below) but tubs or even smaller glass tanks work too.

Care: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

Cage Heating: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Thermometers

When it comes to Ball Python cages simpler is better. Everything inside a cage is going to have to be regularly disinfected so the less there is the easier that will be. Many people would consider this to be the ideal BP cage setup.



Here is what a PVC reptile cage looks like (they hold heat and humidity in much better than glass tanks do, and they provide more security to the snake)

[hypnotixdmp]

Ok 1st thing, a 55 gal is wayyyyyy to big for one that size, he needs a smaller place so I would continue to use the 10 gal (or divide the 55 gal into a smaller section) till he gets bigger. As for the water, I wouldn't even make it hold that much, that's a LOT of water, the whole waterfall thing def sounds awesome, but he only needs to be able to drink water really. If you cover the top 3/4 of the way with tin foil it seems to hold humidity much better.

As for the heat question on bedding, the acurite thermometer can help you tell what the temp is over the UTH with the probe, which I suggest you hot glue in there because I tried with the little sticky pad and it comes off very easily once the humidity gets to it.

For hides, check out reptile basics, they have safe plastic hides of different sizes for all ages of bps. They are super easy to clean and after shipping cost a lot less than anything you will find in a pet store. Also, double entrance hides are not ideal for balls as they need to feel secure, while heat go in the tube, it's most likely just because that's the only safe feeling area in his home to him.

Hope I have given you some helpful info here!


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[hypnotixdmp]

Dang you beat me too it and gave pix and links ha


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[Nim]

Thank you both for the info and help.

I would love to eventually have a cage similar to the one described. I'm defiantly on a budget, and I've got to work with what I've got for now. I like the simplistic design and low maintenance of the cage layout you've described, but I was hoping to make something more natural~ish. I was considering a couple of astro-turf type mats to switch out, but I like the idea of eco earth for humidity and low~ish maintenance.

I defiantly like those hides and will be getting a few of the smalls. I didn't see those acu-rite probe thermometer/hydrometers online, but I'll absolutely look for one of those. I've read on a different forum(don't remember which at the moment) that tanks that are "too big" aren't actually a bad thing as long as you can accommodate the inhabiting creatures behavior. In the case of the BP this would mean more hides, mainly.

Main thing though is to try and make what I have available work. I could probably try to somewhat section off the water feature so that it's inaccessible but the main reason for it would be humidity in a glass tank this big. I could probably make it a lot smaller than I was planning. From what I understand a waterfall is a great way to add humidity, because the water falls through the air and makes a splash.

Thank you both again. I will still continue to research the best available options to make what I've got work for him.

[kitedemon]

I would suggest a side turned aquarium. It is very similar in function as a plastic enclosure (I have a few of both)

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...arium-Solution

With this method you will not need the water feature. They can be balanced but it is a micro environment and difficult to grow the 'right' bacteria and keep the 'wrong' bacteria in check. I would avoid it unless you have experience in advanced aquarium keeping and understand that balance well. (having a healthy tank would help to add water and filter medium as with no food the bacteria die)

That is my suggestion. KISS method.

[Nim]

The only problem I have with that solution is I'd have to find/make another stand for it...but that's only a minor annoyance compared to the happiness/safety of the snake.

Both heating and humidity would be easier without the outrageous height of the aquarium(probably have no need for the Night Red light that I'm currently using). I still want the water feature, just because I have the pump and it would be nifty, but whatever(a removable container may be easier with more surface space). With that much bottom surface area a single piece removable and washable substrate will be a lot easier to control/clean than the eco earth that I'd like to use...

I am still a novice, but I like to think that I'm an intelligent person(at least that's what I'm told). I can understand most all of the concepts of BP husbandry, and understanding forum posts/knowledge bases/information isn't an issue(my imagination is...).

KISS...lol <--Absolutely right though

Delusions of grandeur aside, I should think of the snakes needs vs my hopes/wants/dreams...(damn drunken reasoning *shakes fist*)

***I think I use "()" too much...


All in all...I have some pondering to do.

Thank you for the advice.

[kitedemon]

No prob. The height and open top make things more complex. The issue with side turned is often in cool rooms the ambient air temps need to be controlled. I use a 2 foot fluorescent light inside mounted to the op to help. (they run around 100ºF not hot enough to burn but as they are convection source they heat air. Unlike many other secondary heat sources that are radiant heat (UTH,RHP) and do not. I use deep blue LED (low visibility for ball pythons) at night this keeps the night temp ok (led produce little light but the electronics that step 110v to 12v do.) mounting is an issue I have played with strong magnets but they are not enough I have resorted to hot glue and this has worked perfectly for 18 months now.

[Nim]

I've noticed hot glue is used by a lot of people to mount anything inside the tank, fairly common from what I've read.

[Nim]

Just had an idea about the water feature. I can do something similar to what lizard-landscapes.com has done with sculptured waterfalls, or make a simple plexiglas container that's removable, instead of segmenting the tank.