Dream Scenario

[BWyant]

So, I've actually inquired about getting a loan to pull this off, not too seriously, but I have asked. Let's just say Regions bank wasn't thrilled with the idea of putting snakes up as collateral. But, I digress. This is essentially my initial dream plan, dealing with some of my favorite morphs. I got price quotes from the majority of all the big-name breeders and looked at the racks that I'd really like to have.

Questions I have for you guys: all my prices seem correct? Some of them didn't list adult or baby or whatever stage of growth, help me out there and let me know exactly what I'd be looking at. Any ways to save some money without sacrificing quality? I'd really like to run a small-scale but extremely professional operation. I know Kobylka is kind of known for his piebalds, so are some breeders better with a morph than another? Things I'm forgetting? Just any tips in general.

1 ARS 3033 Cage Unit (30 tubs, 33 inches) - $2500 + shipping.
1 Vision Hatchling Rack (42 tubs, 15 inches) - $950 + shipping.
Total Caging - $3500

1.3 Mojave (to produce BELs) - BHB 1.2 $675, VPI 1.3 $1000, NERD Adult Male $300
1.0 Yellowbelly Het. Piebald - JRK Adult Breeder $800, VPI $750
0.2 Het. Piebald (to produce Pumpkin Pieds) - BHB Adult $250, VPI Adult $250
1.2 Pinstripe Het. Black Axanthic (to produce Pinstripe Axanthics, obviously) - N/A... I couldn't find anybody with any of these.
1.1 Phantom (to produce Super Phantoms) - NERD $2500, VPI 0.1 $1000
1.0 Mystic (to produce Mystic Potions) - BHB $1100, VPI $700, NERD Adult $1200
1.1 Champagne (to produce Super Champagnes or mix with others) - VPI $4000, Sloan Brothers $2200, BHB $2200
0.8 Normal (to produce breeding stock and sellables) - BHB Babies $360 & Adults $1200, VPI $120ea
I'd probably leave out either the phantoms or the champagnes just to save a little bit.
Total Snakes - Approximately $7200 (minus either phantoms or champagnes)

18 snakes x 52 weeks x 2 dollars per rat = $1900
Total Food - $1900

Bedding - ? (probably just newspaper or paper towels)
Cleaner - ? (you'd have to tell me on this one, I'm a newb)
Vets if needed - (hopefully not, but again, you'd have to tell me)
Say $1000 for all of this...

Incubator for eggs - Tough to say... Say, 500ish?

Total cost - $14,000 (rounded up a couple hundred bucks)

So.... Am I insane?

[tcutting]

what about heat? thats a cost.
bedding costs something even if you use paper products. 18 snakes will cost a lot more than that in food per year if you are breeding. Plus what age/size are the first ones going to be?

Now the real question is how can you tell them that the market isnt going to tank and their collateral is going to keep a decent value during the payback period. and better yet how can you assure them that you are going to be able to make the money back by selling the offspring for a reasonable profit?

most of the morphs you listed are EXTREMELY common and many small timers have them as well. in the next 2 years the market is going to get a strong surge of these much like it did pastels and Hypos. now those are a dime a dozen and found at petsmart and petco's nationwide.

thats just my very quick overview and thought on the topic. and building your own racks and incubator may save you some cash. and prices of the ones you want and listed are always changing. keep a close eye on kingsnake and faunaclassifieds.

[Mike41793]

I personally would start out WAY smaller and work your way up.

What happens if you jump in head first and get bored of it? You'll be out $15K and Regions bank wont be happy lol. Have you ever kept/bred snakes before?

[BWyant]

what about heat? thats a cost.

Yup, electric bill going up. I knew that, just didn't account for it there. That's why I asked.

bedding costs something even if you use paper products.

Factored that in with the vets and cleaners.

18 snakes will cost a lot more than that in food per year if you are breeding.

Really? I assumed that not every snake would eat every week (shed, not hungry, etc) and because they were breeding, they also wouldn't eat as much during breeding season... Or are you referring to getting them up to breeding-weight?

Plus what age/size are the first ones going to be?

Some adults, some babies. I wouldn't expect to make all my money back in a single year. More like three.

Now the real question is how can you tell them that the market isnt going to tank and their collateral is going to keep a decent value during the payback period. and better yet how can you assure them that you are going to be able to make the money back by selling the offspring for a reasonable profit?

most of the morphs you listed are EXTREMELY common and many small timers have them as well. in the next 2 years the market is going to get a strong surge of these much like it did pastels and Hypos. now those are a dime a dozen and found at petsmart and petco's nationwide.

I probably wouldn't go with a bank based upon my first experience trying that route. I'd probably get financial help from the fam.

As far as the morphs, obviously mojos are relatively common, but BELs, super phantoms/champagnes and potions are considered commonplace now?

thats just my very quick overview and thought on the topic. and building your own racks and incubator may save you some cash. and prices of the ones you want and listed are always changing. keep a close eye on kingsnake and faunaclassifieds.

I appreciate the reply and hope the discussion keeps going.

Thanks,
-Brock.

[Andybill]

A plan and budget break down is great but there are always other costs that just pop up that are very difficult to plan for. Cost of electricity? Its gonna run your bill up. If you are looking to save money drop the 1.1 Champs. As far as I am aware the only super champs to have been produced have not survived so I would scrap that idea and just stick to one champ. And I dont think 1.3 mojos is necessary to begin with I would mix it up a bit more and get a male mojo with the following females:

special, phantom, butter.

Thats just me tho... I cant tell you to start out small cuz I didnt. I went from 2 bps to 13 in a span of 3 months... I would have a bigger cushion for unexpected expenses than just 1000.

[BWyant]

I personally would start out WAY smaller and work your way up.

What happens if you jump in head first and get bored of it? You'll be out $15K and Regions bank wont be happy lol. Have you ever kept/bred snakes before?

With a 15k investment.... Let's put it this way - I wouldn't allow myself to get bored. Period.

I hear what you're saying though. I've had exotic fish (only really bad part about that was cleaning day) and I've babysat a friend's snakes before. I guess I'm just looking at it as more of a.... I'm 27 and want a business so that I can do something productive with my life, I love animals, snakes are awesome and worth money, why not combine the two and do something that I love rather than sit in a cubicle for the next 40 years?

[DavidMundy]

Instead of getting a huge loan on all those common snakes, why don't you slowly invest into multiple gene females and a few visual recessive females? Raise them up for a year or two then buy multiple gene males? I understand your excitement/hopes for a breeding business but you have to be smart. All of those snakes you listed are fairly common now and the prices will plummet in the next 2 years. It would probably take you 2-4 years if your lucky to be able to pay off that loan just from profit of selling babies.

[BWyant]

A plan and budget break down is great but there are always other costs that just pop up that are very difficult to plan for. Cost of electricity? Its gonna run your bill up. If you are looking to save money drop the 1.1 Champs. As far as I am aware the only super champs to have been produced have not survived so I would scrap that idea and just stick to one champ. And I dont think 1.3 mojos is necessary to begin with I would mix it up a bit more and get a male mojo with the following females:

special, phantom, butter.

Thats just me tho... I cant tell you to start out small cuz I didnt. I went from 2 bps to 13 in a span of 3 months... I would have a bigger cushion for unexpected expenses than just 1000.

Thank you. Good info, especially about the champagnes.

Yeah, unfortunately that budget just continues to slowly get bigger and bigger.... kind of like a snake, really. LoL.

I've definitely thought about scrapping the mojo route for the BELs though and getting at least one butter.

Thanks again.

- - - Updated - - -

Instead of getting a huge loan on all those common snakes, why don't you slowly invest into multiple gene females and a few visual recessive females? Raise them up for a year or two then buy multiple gene males? I understand your excitement/hopes for a breeding business but you have to be smart. All of those snakes you listed are fairly common now and the prices will plummet in the next 2 years. It would probably take you 2-4 years if your lucky to be able to pay off that loan just from profit of selling babies.

Oh, I'm not worried about paying off the money in a single year. That's not going to happen. It's damn near impossible for a small-business that's starting up to pay off their debt in the first year. I'd be looking at more like 3 years as the goal, just like you mentioned.

The thing I'm not seeing is how the snakes I mentioned are fairly common. I mean, yeah, the base morphs are, but BELs, Pumpkin Pieds and Super Phantoms ain't cheap.

You think it would be a better idea to just have a couple of powerhouse snakes so that food costs aren't as high and whatnot? I'm just a little concerned that if one of them were to croak or if the female didn't lay a clutch or if the eggs went bad... Then what? At least with that many snakes it's not like I'm putting all my eggs in one basket, literally.

[Freakie_frog]

Now the few things I saw missing.

Water bowls
Food for Babies
More baby houseing becaue with the number of females you have listed you couldn't breed more than 7. so add another baby rack


I say add another 2-3K for baby's and you'll be set..

Other than water, power.

[tcutting]

most of the snakes you are trying to get up to weight will eat easily twice a week. especially the females. once up to weight and they drop their eggs to get them back up to weight you will want to feed them heavy again. Assuming only 1 meal a week per animal I don’t think is good planning. I say plan for the worse (in this case highest cost) and hope for the best. But in this case the females eating a ton is also the best case.

BELs will be a dime a dozen and the potions may not be the as common but still by the point you will be producing they will be far more common than you think. here is a link that outlines what i am getting at....
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=943718

I could be wrong but i could be right. food for thought.