Newbie needs help w/heating tank

[Belle]

I have a ball python here (I think he is about 2 y/o). My teenage daughter just got him at the end of December from a rescue. I know this is a long post, but I'm hoping to help someone help me by giving the complete information at once. Thanks in advance to anyone kind enough to read through it and respond. Please have mercy on me. I'm an old lady who was given ZERO notice a ball python was moving in, so I couldn't research supplies and buy ahead of time. I don't have faith in the local retail reptile "experts". Some even have convictions for reptile related offenses When we called looking for a thermostat, the reptile specialty store told us over the phone we didn't NEED any thermostat on the UTH. Or the UTH at all for that matter. Just a rheosat and they had none in stock anyway. The other stores with huge reptile selections didn't stock ANY thermostat, just rheostats.

The snake is currently in a 30 gallon glass tank (36x 16x12) covered with screen top. We have no choice but to put it on a wall window so we put insulation over the window and covered the back and one side of the tank with metallic bubble wrap type insulation I have a loose piece of that metallic bubble wrap covering g 3/4 of the screen top, but can take it on & off to aid circulation or retain heat.

I think his tank is not warm enough and was hoping someone here could advise me. We have a new acu-rite thermometer inside the tank. I think it is accurate because it agrees with another brand digital thermometer. The thermometer unit is on the cool side of the tank. Right now it reads 73.4F. The wire sensor for the "outside" reading is on the hot side inside the hide under the thin layer of Eco earth substrate. That temp reads 81.9F, and I thought it should be quite a bit higher than that.

The substrate was damp when it was placed this weekend, and it is causing high humidity. We definitely won't repeat that mistake. The rescue sold it to my kid with the snake, and she likes the substrate, we just need to dry it out before placing it next time or switch to aspen or something. There is a very thin layer of the substrate in the hide, so I don't think that alone is keeping the temp too low.

I really would like to buy something that I could screw into the existing over the tank lamp fixture with metal hood which currently has a Repticare 150 watt ceramic infrared Heat Emitter (labelled for 50 to 100 gallon tanks). The reasoning is I'm freaked out about fire, the snake is in my kid's room, and I have other pets. This lamp set-up is easy to secure the metal housing to the top of the screen for safety purposes and keeps the cord off the heated lamp shade cover. However, that might actually be some of or my entire problem because the heat emitter bulb is held 1.5 to 2 inches ABOVE the screen, and the screen is 17 inches vertically from the bottom of the tank. I was hoping I could just buy a stronger wattage ceramic emitter or similar and hook it up to a rheostat to raise/lower the wattage as ambient conditions change. If my problem is that the current lamp holder keeps the emitter too high off the tank screen is my problem, of course I'll replace it. I'd like to replace it with a similar set up, though.

The only other heat source I am using is a 16w Zilla Medium UTH hooked up to a Zilla 1000w temperature controller thermostat. The sensor for the thermostat is on the OUTSIDE of the bottom of the tank between the glass & the uth. Is that right? It isn't what the manufacturer recommends for placement, but from my online research, I thought what I did was a better plan (and if I blindly adhere to every Zilla or Zoomed instruction, my snake won't live to see Christmas). The thermostat is set for 95 but light on the thermostat is RED right now which makes me think it has the UTH off? Also, when I crank the thermostat up all the way to 105, the light stays red. How can I tell if the thermostat is broke when all the UTHs feel off and useless to me by touch? I will buy a heat gun but don't have one in the house right now. I am planning on ordering a Herpstat but the Zilla 1000w was the only thermostat of any kind available locally and I wanted something until I order nd receive a Herpstat. BTW, Herpstat web site says new models are coming out in February. nHerpstat isn't answering my emails from yesterday either. I'm thinking I should I disconnect the thermostat and try the UTH on without it to see if it warms up per the acu-rite sensor above it?

The tank itself is on a wood dresser, but we have it held a bit above the actual wood surface by some furniture grippers. I *thought* that was preferable to placing the tank with the uth directly on the dresser for safety, circulation, and uth operation purposes. We did NOT use the adhesive on the uth to stick it to the bottom of the tank. The uth is taped to the bottom of the glass tank as tight as I can reasonably get it, but it isn't 100% in contact because I have the thermostat sensor under there.

The ambient room temperature outside the tank is about 70F. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, so the room temperature will swing throughout the year. In winter, we keep the house about 70F during the day and as low as 65F at night. However, I kept the heat on a constant 70 last night because I'm afraid the snake is cold enough already.

[Belle]

Correction: The HEAT SOURCE light is red on the controller. The power light is green.

[mattb]

Sounds like you are off to a good start. I would defiantly suggest you remove the damp sub-straight because that can cause scale rot depending on how damp it is. I did use aspen but decided to go with reptile carpet due to being a bit cheaper and looked like it will be easy to clean. Your hot side should be around 92 and the cold around 80 with my big tank I am using 2 rheostats because I have a UTH under both sides but a thermostat would be the best way to go. On top of mine I have a 75 watt day bulb and a 75 watt night bulb over most of the screen I have aluminum foil and it seems to keep the temps just right. The biggest problem I have is the humidity for that I mist or do a damp sponge. I will gladly show you that setup when I can get home and snap a pic. I will tell you that this is an awesome place to get information I am glad that I found it because of all the knowledge you can find. And the red light most if the time means its working. At least on the model I have. Ask away if there was anything missed. Take care and congrats on the rescue.

[RestlessRobie]

You are on the right track yes the tank temps need to come up some take a look at the caresheet some real good info there. As for the substrate I use Eco Earth and have not had an issue with it I use 2 buckets to rewet the bricks. I add water and rewet in one bucket then wring all the water out that I can and add to the second bucket this leaves the Eco Earth damp but not wet. I also covered 3 sides of my encolsures with Aquraium background for viewing pleasure then added cardboard with foiltape on one side to replect heat in. I use Flexwatt taped to the bottom of my tanks on a T-stat, I use the Vivarium 300 from reptile basics, and set the T-stat until I ge the desired temps on my substrate. Usuallt about 98 at the T-stat gives me 95 on the glass and 92 at the substrate. I also use a CHE 75W for my 20longs and 150W for my 40 Breeder (similar to your tank). Then I cover the tanks with a peice of plexi glass cut to fit with holes drilled in it for ventilation and the CHE. Here are a few picks hope this helps and feel free to ask if you have any other questions.





The plexi cover I made

[mikel81]

The sensor for the thermostat is on the OUTSIDE of the bottom of the tank between the glass & the uth. Is that right? I'm thinking I should I disconnect the thermostat and try the UTH on without it to see if it warms up per the acu-rite sensor above it?

The tank itself is on a wood dresser, but we have it held a bit above the actual wood surface by some furniture grippers. I *thought* that was preferable to placing the tank with the uth directly on the dresser for safety, circulation, and uth operation purposes. We did NOT use the adhesive on the uth to stick it to the bottom of the tank. The uth is taped to the bottom of the glass tank as tight as I can reasonably get it, but it isn't 100% in contact because I have the thermostat sensor under there.

Well you made a great decision by coming here, this is a wonderful forum full of great people. And it sounds like you have a wonderful start already on the setup.

You are right about the thermostat probe placement. I stuck the uth to the tank with the probe between the glass near the center of the pad. The reason you don't put it in the tank is because if the snake moves the probe to a cooler position it will make the uth get too hot. The one you have will get around 115+º F if it is plugged straight in and probably warmer if it is under a tank so I wouldn't suggest using it without a thermostat. Remember you probably will not feel warm from 90º surface temperature because it is near your body temp. You will want to test the surface inside the tank with an infrared thermometer to be sure, and don't forget if your snake burrows into the substrate it may be warmer at the glass. Adjust your thermostat accordingly. As for the ambient temp, don't try to raise it with an uth unless you stick it on the side. Cover most of the top to keep in heat/humidity leaving only a slightly larger hole for your ceramic emitter. I cut the lid from an old tub for mine, leaving an inch around so it doesn't melt.

And post some pics if you can. We like pics.

[k8nkane]

Something that has helped save money for my heating bill (I live in MI) is investing in a space heater with a built-in thermometer so it can shut itself off when it gets to a certain temperature; that way I can keep the room the tank is in warmer for the ambient temps than I would otherwise keep the temp of the house in general.

I have a Duraflame, this one: http://www.amazon.com/Duraflame-Port...ef=pd_sim_hg_1

I like it because I have a couple of dogs as well, and since it's on wheels and is so squat, it can't be knocked over. Also, it remains cool to the touch on the outside of it. I have it on level 3 most of the time and that, plus the CHE I have for the hot side, keeps my temps right where they need to be.

[Belle]

Thank you to all who have responded so far. I would greatly appreciate any feedback on replacing the heat emitter with a stronger one. Or should it be producing enough heat, but the problem is it that it is sitting too high from the bottom of the tank.? The heat emitter bulb is held 1.5 to 2 inches ABOVE the screen, and the screen is 17 inches vertically from the bottom of the tank.

I'm afraid to take a photo this minute because it will show he is not completely fitting inside his lousy butter container hide, and it is also tipped upward uncovering him. I don't think anybody would jazz me too much over temporary butter container and cardboard box set up. However, I bet some would tease me over the fact his hide needs adjusting, and I'm afraid to stick my hand in the tank to fix it and take a picture. I was so worried about him with no thermostat on the uth, and all they were using was the stupid stick on dial thermometers. Yesterday, I *did* risk my life and place my household digital thermometer into his enclosure (which confirmed his temps were really off). I absolutely know I don't have to be afraid of the snake. I have two big guard dogs that hurt me a lot more than the snake could. I'm STILL not putting my hand in the snake tank unless the snake's health is at risk.

It isn't my snake. *I* didn't buy the snake nor all the inadequate equipment in it. My husband and kid did. Husband promised to take care of the snake but didn't do the research. I did and last night I demanded he and the kid stay home from their planned activity to create a smaller hide, buy an acu-rite to replace the stuck on dial thermometers/humidity measure, and buy a thermostat. I was worried about the snake and drove to all the pet stores in the area trying to find a thermostat. I also fully financed the Zilla 1000w thermostat knowing it was overpriced and not proportional because it was the only thermostat in stock locally, and the kid couldn't afford to buy it just to use until the Herpstat is here. I'll probably end up eating the price of the Herpstat, too, despite the family agreement that I wouldn't be paying for the snake care.

Can't totally blame the husband. Although he didn't research on his own or listen to me about what the snake needed until I got hysterically loud about it, he keeps getting bad information from the snake rescue, the pet stores, and the directions on the pet products he buys in the store. I reached out to a different snake rescue for mentoring, and they haven't gotten back to me either. I can't even find reliable info on a local vet yet.

I did unplug the thermostat and sure enough, the temperature in the hide went up to 96F right away. I unplugged the UTH after the test so it won't burn the snake. Something is wrong with the thermostat. Either it is plugged in wrong or broken. I'm not mechanical, and there are 3 possible outlets to plug the uth into the thermostat. I can't get a heat source light on using any of them now. Before I messed with it the temp in the hide was too low and the heat source light was red (which husband claims meant the uth was on but I'm not so sure).

Snake will have people home in two hours to fix his hide and thermostat. I suspect it is broken. I had to buy one that had an opened package because it was the only one I could find despite driving and calling around. I suspect it was returned as broken and Petco just reshelved and sold it. Luckily for me, Zilla is located where I live, and they have offered a new one for us to pick up this afternoon.

Thanks again to everyone for their helpful support. And yeah, you can tease me big time for being afraid to stick my hand in the snake's tank. He's very docile and has never hissed or anything when handled. He seems happy and friendly enough. Probably cold though

[mikel81]

If you have an indoor garden center nearby you may be able to get a hydrofarm thermostat for around $30. I know the one by me carries them.
Here it is on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S
I have two of them and they keep the temps within around 3 degrees.

I'm glad to hear they got the snake from a rescue and not a pet shop, and good for you for researching and getting the animal all set up. I am sure (s)he appreciates it. And don't feel silly for being nervous about the snake. I was a little afraid to pick mine up when I got it and almost started to regret it. Now I couldn't imagine life without snakes. I currently have 10 and growing.

[Twist]

Dont worry about being teased about not wanting to pick it up. My mother was scared to death of my snakes at first but now I have problems with her just taking them out of their cages without asking me.

On the topic of heating, UTH's are preferred as long as they're used in conjunction with some type of device to control the temperature. People debate the belly heat (UTH) vs back heat (CHE) which honestly to me neither is more beneficial. My issue (and reason I dont use them frequently) is with CHE's because they dry out the the enclosure they're used on and like you, I have a screen tops where some snakes the require moderate humidity and even more so when going through shed so I rarely use mine.

As for your snakes hide problem, someone here came up with a great idea for making home made hides. I'd love to make one myself but I dont have the supplies ready. It might be of use to you. You can see it Here

Good luck and welcome to the forums

[Christopher R. Cote]

Where was he rescued? What pet shops have you been visiting?

Although Hoffer's is a fun store to visit, I avoid buying anything there. It's all overpriced and customer service is hit-or-miss. I like Gary's Pet Jungle on Howell Ave. It's small and cramped, but Gary knows his stuff.

PS- Think your daughter would have any interest in breeding her new pet? I have an adult female that's ready to mate. My male ball python is too young this year for pairing.

Good luck with the new snake!