Sick Herp Help

[TheFellCrow]

Recently, we have been having a lot of trouble with sick reptiles. I work at petsmart and I know that I keep a close eye on the reptiles care, temps, cages. I know that we are providing them the best care we possibly could. Last week or the end of the week before, one of the groomers from petsmart came to me and told me that one of her baby ball pythons had fallen ill. It had a swollen mouth, its nose was bubbling and runny, and it keeps gasping. I told her it sounded like a respiratory infection and it needed to see a vet, however, because of the holiday, the vets would not be open for a day or two. So she separated her baby ball from the rest of her reptiles and made sure its cage was kept clean, and that the heat was on point, if not a bit higher than normal. I also recommended putting some reptiboost in his water to give him energy that he sorely needed and electrolytes and vitamins. The reptiboost helped him out a lot by keeping him strong. She took him to the vet and the vet said it looked like he bit something and his mouth got infected. The infection then spread to his lungs. He was put on antibiotics. However, the poor little one didn’t make it. He passed a few days later.

Later that week she came to me again and said that her other baby was gasping. Imagine my horror. She took the little girl right away, determined not to lose her too. She spent over $150 on antibiotics, tests, and appointments. All for not, she came to me today and said that she died as well.

At practically the same time, Thursday of last week I believe, I pulled my Russian tortoise out at the store to show a customer and I realized right away that the poor thing was sick. His nose was bubbling, mucus around his mouth, eyes crusty, coughing, gasping. I rushed him to the vet right away. The tortoise was fine the day before. I have been a bit nervous since the groomer lost her babies and I’ve been checking everybody. He looked perfectly healthy. The vet (different vet btw) said that it was an upper respiratory infection, and that she “THOUGHT it MAY be viral.” He was given antibiotics once a day and placed in the quiet room (for sick animals, less stressful). His temperature was kept a bit hotter than normal, uvb/uva light, clean cage. He died Saturday, 2 days later.

2 or 3 hours later on that same Thursday I was feeding the snakes when I got to the ball pythons. I picked up the first baby ball and my heart dropped. There was extra mucus in his mouth. The vet had already gone for the day so she went the next day. Surprise surprise she was diagnosed with a respiratory infection. She is being treated with antibiotics orally once a day. She is also in the quiet room with a higher than normal heat. It was about 98/99 degrees in her tank when I left for today. But she is regressing. Her nose is bubbling now and I don’t get it.

There has to be something I’m missing. I am scared that my reptiles at home are going to get sick. I can’t stand it. I’m especially worried about my Ball Python Flicker since it seems to be hitting ball pythons especially. I raised her from a hatchling. We’ve been together for 13 years now, I can’t lose her now… Please can you see anything that I missed? I need help. If you need more info on anything just let me know.


Fell

[WarriorPrincess90]

Hello Fell. Welcome to BP.net.

I'm sorry to see you've joined under such horrible circumstances, and what little explanation I can offer is not likely to make you feel any better. For which, I apologize.

First, if the vet that the reptiles have been seeing that finally diagnosed their illnesses as a respiratory infection is not a Herp Vet, I would find another ASAP. If she/he is a herp specialist, then they should have been able to tell you that if the infection is in fact viral as he/she expects, it is not treatable with antibiotics. Just as a human virus is not treatable with antibiotics.

My first BP came down with a horrible respiratory infection that the vet thought might be viral. She did not make it, sadly. And every time one of my snakes makes any sort of strange noise now, I immediately check for every sign of a respiratory infection that I'm aware of. Your experience has been particularly horrible.

The only way to know for sure what type of bacteria or virus is affecting the reptiles specifically is either to do a tracheal flush, or a necropsy on one of the deceased animals. I recommend attempting to have the latter done. Suggest to your manager or to the vet, whomever it takes, that a necropsy is done as soon as possible. That way the store will have a better idea of what they are dealing with and so will you.

Until then however, if antibiotics have proven unsuccessful in the past, preemptively treating your snake with Baytril or some other antibiotic is unlikely to help. Therefore, until you know what you're dealing with, I suggest that you avoid being around or handling your snake when you come home from work. Take a shower as soon as you get home, and put your uniforms in the wash. Do not touch or come in contact with anything that was at your work or around the sick animals and then go near your snake. If you do have to handle the clothes you wore, be sure to wash thoroughly before touching your snake, and if possible, before going in the room where your snake is kept. I know it sounds like a lot, but viral infections are VERY contagious, as you have seen. Watch your snake carefully for any signs of abnormal behavior or respiratory infection. If you notice ANYTHING out of the ordinary, take your snake to a vet immediately and let them know you suspect a possible viral infection if you have not had that confirmed via necropsy yet.

I really wish you the best of luck with this, and I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. I'm sure there are others on the site who may have greater insight to add. Hopefully someone else will be able to shed more light on this.

[WarriorPrincess90]

Also, I forgot to mention...Ball pythons are extremely prone to respiratory infections. They are easily stressed and as such, are more likely to contract such illnesses. In my experience, balls are particularly susceptible to respiratory issues.

[zeion97]

now i'm horrified.. I have 3 snakes with "RI's.." but its been 3 months for 1 and for th other two about 1.

I would GUESS it's viral..? A RI shouln't kill that fast...they're a few people on here with ALOT more experience then myself but I can't give you any more then that. I'd say separate ALL the animals to try and find the sicks ones and the healthy ones, BUT since it's a store that's easier said then done..

All I can do is wish you luck, and advise anyone from holding them.

[Daybreaker]

Where's Skiploder? He's IMO the expert on RIs on this board!

I would say your friend's husbrandry is at fault if her snakes are all falling ill to RIs. Were the sick snakes showing any other signs of ill health other that the RI symptoms (regurging, stargazing, etc?)

As for orally treating RIs, I believe injectable antibiotics do so much better than oral applications. I would recommend discussing doing injectables with the vet. Also is the 98/99 degrees hot spot temps? If so, I would lower it a tad since that seems a bit too high (IMO). I bumped my one girl's hot spot temps to ~95 when she came to me with an RI and after 30 days of injectable Baytril shots she got cured of it.

As for protecting your snakes: wash and sanitize your hands before coming home and right when you get home. I wouldn't worry about your snakes catching anything though as long as you're strict with santizing yourself after being around the sickly petstore snakes.

[zeion97]

Where's Skiploder? He's IMO the expert on RIs on this board!

I would say your friend's husbrandry is at fault if her snakes are all falling ill to RIs. Were the sick snakes showing any other signs of ill health other that the RI symptoms (regurging, stargazing, etc?)

As for orally treating RIs, I believe injectable antibiotics do so much better than oral applications. I would recommend discussing doing injectables with the vet. Also is the 98/99 degrees hot spot temps? If so, I would lower it a tad since that seems a bit too high (IMO). I bumped my one girl's hot spot temps to ~95 when she came to me with an RI and after 30 days of injectable Baytril shots she got cured of it.

As for protecting your snakes: wash and sanitize your hands before coming home and right when you get home. I wouldn't worry about your snakes catching anything though as long as you're strict with santizing yourself after being around the sickly petstore snakes.

I was going to mention Skip but didn't want other people to feel left out.
Also Day a question...how often did you administer baytril? every day or every other?

To the OP. If you do get injectables, stray away from ceftazidime, AKA Fortaz. It helps with Mouth Rot, but not the RI itself.

[WarriorPrincess90]

I was going to mention Skip but didn't want other people to feel left out.
Also Day a question...how often did you administer baytril? every day or every other?

To the OP. If you do get injectables, stray away from ceftazidime, AKA Fortaz. It helps with Mouth Rot, but not the RI itself.

Sorry to jump in here...but when I did Baytril injections my vet had me administer them every other day, and boy did my girl come to dread those things. Poor baby.

[TheFellCrow]

Where's Skiploder? He's IMO the expert on RIs on this board!

I would say your friend's husbrandry is at fault if her snakes are all falling ill to RIs. Were the sick snakes showing any other signs of ill health other that the RI symptoms (regurging, stargazing, etc?)

As for orally treating RIs, I believe injectable antibiotics do so much better than oral applications. I would recommend discussing doing injectables with the vet. Also is the 98/99 degrees hot spot temps? If so, I would lower it a tad since that seems a bit too high (IMO). I bumped my one girl's hot spot temps to ~95 when she came to me with an RI and after 30 days of injectable Baytril shots she got cured of it.

As for protecting your snakes: wash and sanitize your hands before coming home and right when you get home. I wouldn't worry about your snakes catching anything though as long as you're strict with santizing yourself after being around the sickly petstore snakes.

it may have been her husbandry at fault. But she works in the store with the reptiles. and she got a snake from us not too long before her ball pythons got sick. i dont know if that would have affected it. I even think that her son held a ball python before finally deciding on a corn snake. i dont know im really at a loss.

[zeion97]

Sorry to jump in here...but when I did Baytril injections my vet had me administer them every other day, and boy did my girl come to dread those things. Poor baby.

my "new" vet did every other day ORALY. I am going to do injections, at $1,200 a bottle though... (his price to make money) I'm going to get a prescription and do it myself. -_-; All three of mine are clearing up now

Sorry, I didn't mean to take your thread!

[Daybreaker]

I was going to mention Skip but didn't want other people to feel left out.
Also Day a question...how often did you administer baytril? every day or every other?

Every day for a full 30 days kicked her RI. I also raised her temps as well.

it may have been her husbandry at fault. But she works in the store with the reptiles. and she got a snake from us not too long before her ball pythons got sick. i dont know if that would have affected it. I even think that her son held a ball python before finally deciding on a corn snake. i dont know im really at a loss.

If she got a snake from the store which was indeed sick then the others would have only gotten sick as well if she didn't quarantine and santize inbetween caring for her established collection and the new addition(s). If she didn't practice QT, then unfortunatly her collection's sickness is on her. Quarantine is key with new additions!

The following is only from experience: When my girl had an RI (came to me with it) she was in a quarantine rack with fellow snakes: one being the other snake that I purchased her with who was transported with her. They were in close space with each other and just by santizing in between holding the sick snake and caring for the others, santizing the QT tongs when feeding each snake, and keeping an eye on the other healthy ones made it so the RI didn't spread to anyone else. RI's can pass between snakes, but from my experience they arn't as easily transmitted as others have delt with.

I would recommend separating your friend's sick snakes from any others of hers that appear to be healthy but wouldn't rule out that the healthy ones may indeed already be sick: from getting the RIs from the other snakes or by bad husbandry.