Symptoms and care after URI?

[H_Kris_H]

If anything it looked like she had some mucus that was in the process of drying up, but not much if any at all.

Okay. For the most part, the only one that is still drooling heavily is my albino, who had it the longest. The other just have heaving breathing and wet but clear saliva.

They are all eating fine, though, which would that also be a sure sign of and overly stressed or sick animal?

I only ask all of these questions because my balls aren't just breeders to me... In fact when my Isabelle who was my first got sick I was devastated...

[Daybreaker]

Thank you very much. =3

As for any residual effects, did your animal continue to drool for a while? All I really wanted advice on was residual effects.

She actually never drooled or had bubbles visible on the outside of her mouth, hers was a very mild RI that I caught in the very early stages (I would assume I caught it within the first couple days or so of her coming down with it).

All she had was the thick mucus sticky looking stuff in the back of her throat with bubbles around her trachea (I can shoot you over a photo that I took of the inside of her mouth if you'd like to see what a mild RI looks like if you PM me).

Since RIs won't clear up overnight (took a full 30 days to get my poor girl right again) I'd say to just check on them after they appear to be rid of the RI to make sure they actually kicked it.

[ballpythonluvr]

First, I would like to thank you for your time in your reply. That was thoughtful.

However, the way in which you replied came off as rude. If that was not your intent, then please disregard my previous statement.

As for the cultures, yes, I got cultures on every single one of my ball pythons in order to make sure that they would be getting the correct antibiotic and the correct treatment. There was no way that the vet would be able to give the correct treatment if not for the culture, just like a doctor.

The cultures showed on each and over abundance of naturally occurring bacteria just as a culture would fr a urinary tract infection or yeast infection in humans. Ecoli and yeast are both naturally occurring bacteria in humans which can run rampant if altered by an outside anomaly, such as antibiotics in humans or improper/poisonous substrate such as cedar. My ball pythons never had a problem until I switched them to the cypress, in which I did find traces of cedar.

As for the antibiotics, each of my ball pythons had to go back to the vet twice for a second treatment and a second round of two antibiotics each. After which they were cultured again and sent home with a clean bill of health. At the moment I cannot remember the names of the antibiotics.

As for the soaking, (though you will probably find this to be a cardinal sin) I have been soaking these ball pythons since they were hatchlings at least once a month to assist with shedding and to get them used to the soaks. This would ensure that there is no undue stress during the time of shedding which would also be bad for them. And it worked. None of my balls pythons ball anymore, I have never had one hiss at me and I have never once had one puff at me. Not to mention the reason the soaking was suggested to me in particular was because the mucus that was in their mouths was drying in their noses and mouths, making it harder for them to breath. Trying to take teasers or tongs to pull it out was just hurting them.

For the next three days after I soak my animals, they brighten, they seem healthier and they can breath.

Needless to say, you didn't answer my questions; I simply wished to know what the residual symptoms of an URI would be. Aside from my cinnamon, who is slowly getting better, they are all breathing better aside from the occasional drooling and heavy breathing.

Skiploder was not being rude. He was just stating facts. He knows his information very well and I for one trust his knowledge.

[devildog_dk]

Okay. For the most part, the only one that is still drooling heavily is my albino, who had it the longest. The other just have heaving breathing and wet but clear saliva.

They are all eating fine, though, which would that also be a sure sign of and overly stressed or sick animal?

I only ask all of these questions because my balls aren't just breeders to me... In fact when my Isabelle who was my first got sick I was devastated...

How many days exactly we're they on antibiotics? Cause they shouldn't look too wet if they're actually getting over the infection. If you can get some pics of their mouths and post them here.

[H_Kris_H]

Skiploder was not being rude. He was just stating facts. He knows his information very well and I for one trust his knowledge.

I understand. =3 I just wished to state my piece. I have a number of high end breeder sources that I talk to on a daily basis that have given me suggestions in opposition to his statements, which is why I stated everything I did.

Thank you though. =3

[H_Kris_H]

How many days exactly we're they on antibiotics? Cause they shouldn't look too wet if they're actually getting over the infection. If you can get some pics of their mouths and post them here.

Opening their mouths is the only thing that stresses them, but I will try to get some up tomorrow when I can get some actually visible picture. lol The lighting is too bad here at night to get a clear image.

Most were on treatments every two days for three weeks or until improvement.

They weren't overly wet, but more so than before they got sick.

[DellaF]

Doesn't sound like they are well to me. I think I would try another vet just to be safe.

[Skiploder]

I understand. =3 I just wished to state my piece. I have a number of high end breeder sources that I talk to on a daily basis that have given me suggestions in opposition to his statements, which is why I stated everything I did.

Thank you though. =3

On your previous thread - the one in which you announced that your collection was being hit with the RI - both Deborah and Mpkeelee advised you to discontinue the baths immediately. That was the correct advice.

Any breeder, be they high end, low end or otherwise, who recommends bathing or soaks as part of the recuperative regimen for an RI, should be ignored. It is not only bad advice, but dangerous advice. You need to cease those soaks immediately. If any "high end" breeder thinks I'm full of crap on this issue, I would welcome the opportunity for them to sign on here and debate me directly in OT.

Better yet, why not name those high end experts on this thread so that someone else does not fall victim to this horrible advice? I cannot stress enough how incredibly dangerous and irresponsible these soaks are.

Now with regards to your vet - most respiratory infections are caused by an over abundance of common bacteria.

The reason why a snake succumbs to common environmental bacteria is due to a compromised immune system. A snake's immune system becomes chronically compromised when they are either stressed due to poor environmental conditions or due to an underlying pathogen - like a virus.

Flatly put, if you accept that your vet was correct in his diagnosis and there is no underlying pathogen, then there are stressors that are compromising the health of your animals (like soaking them). You can either review your husbandry practices or your can take the animal back to the vet, and see if the vet is on the ball enough to test for something systemic or if the vet asks you some hard questions about how you are keeping your animals.

Your vet was quick to finger the substrate as the cause. Now that you have replaced the substrate, it can be safely eliminated as the reason for the problem.

When you stated that your vet found three culprit bacteria, a ton of questions came to mind. How did the vet conclude that each of these bacteria was overabundant? Are each of these bacteria capable of causing an RI? Did the vet share with you the name of each bacteria and why the antibiotic was being prescribed?

Whichever way you decide to go, there are no residual symptoms associated with an RI. No amount of drool or chronically labored breathing is normal. My advice remains - cease the soaks immediately and get your animals back to a vet immediately.

[WingedWolfPsion]

1) Keeping the snakes well hydrated is good, but you shouldn't have to soak them for that--keep cage humidity high, and provide fresh drinking water. Keep temperatures about 5 degrees above normal. (Some recommend to lower humidity--this is incorrect, as it leads to dehydration and thickens the mucous. It makes it appear that there is less mucous, but actually it's just lower in volume because it's thicker--thinner mucous is easier to expel).

2) There should not be any residual symptoms after a RI has been successfully treated.

3) Are you sure that this was EVER a bacterial problem, or issue related to the bedding? How did you determine there was cedar in the cypress bedding? Have you considered that this may be a viral infection, and the bacteria were just opportunistic and causing a secondary infection? Usually, one or two animals might get an RI, if some stressing event or cold happens--not half the collection. That makes it sound like something contagious, and the failure of the vet to identify a single culprit...well, maybe the bacteria are innocent.

4) To help thin the mucous, you can nebulize the snakes using plain water. Funny as it sounds, hang them upside down for a moment, then wipe up. Snakes have no diaphragm, so can't cough, and tend to sit with their head elevated when they have trouble breathing. By turning them head down, they will often expel some mucous, and then breathe easier afterward. There's a balance between adding stress and offering treatment. Don't handle or mess with them excessively--try to keep it to once or twice a day, at most, for handling, and once a day for something like nebulizing, unless the vet directs otherwise and gives meds to put in the nebulizing solution.
(You may be able to rent a nebulizer, if you don't have one).
You can cut a hole in a bin, and put the nebulizer tube through the hole, so the tub fills with the mist, to do a nebulizer treatment.

[H_Kris_H]

To all who have responded, none of you have answered my questions. I am going to ignore anything anyone has to say on this matter aside from anyone who wants to answer this question:

Do ball pythons or any animals for that matter have any residual side effects after having been caught up in an epidemic because all of my animals are back to acting as they were before they were sick, eating properly and are looking great in exception of the one, who I already planned on taking back.

As for a compromised immune system, can't a poisonous bedding also be the cause? After I took them off the cypress is when they began to show improvement.