Super ball

[Simplex]

Dogs are a result of selectively breeding wolves. Great example of speciation.

Let me go a different way then. What about hybridization of canids? That is done frequently and fairly commom among WILD populations. I dont see an issue taking a simmilar species of snake and hybridizing it in captivity when it can and does happen in the wild.

[mr.spooky]

i like hybrids,,, or maby i should say the thought of hybrids.. take what im about to say with a grain of salt, but (just in my opinion) even if you had a ball python with blood python "blood" in it,,, and it had every visual aperience of a ball python,, what would it mater? as far as i know, there is no AKC, ur UKC in snakes that tracks lienage. even if there was, even that can be munipulated. how does one TRULY know that they dont have a hybrid in their colection right now???????
maby im just simple, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck,,, and looks like a duck, then chances are,, its a duck... even if there was a one nite stand with a pigeon.
just my thoughts
spooky

[cmack91]

im not too fond of hybrids personally, but one that i saw a while ago was interesting, the "burmball" femae burmese and male ball. never thought that could happen because of size issues, but apparently the guy was breeding two burmese, and he threw a ball in the enclsure cause he was out of space, and them the burmball came. it was interesting though, an eight foot ball python lol

[cmack91]

heres a link to it: http://youtu.be/S-TXm3SDwsM

[Egapal]

I have an opinion regardless and ill chime in with whatever i feel like.. Didnt realize this was a scientific accedemia level discussion. Regardless.. Were all just a bunch of joes with formed opinions.

And sorry but i dont agree with a great dane and a tea cup poodle being the same.. They are an entirly different breed. They are not the same.

A big man and a small woman is different.

Well I am sorry but you are wrong. Breed is just another term for line bred to the point of looking very different. This is no different than what we would call races in humans. Asians can breed with Europeans can breed with Africans. They may look different but they are the same species.

[Egapal]

Let me go a different way then. What about hybridization of canids? That is done frequently and fairly commom among WILD populations. I dont see an issue taking a simmilar species of snake and hybridizing it in captivity when it can and does happen in the wild.

I am not sure if you got the idea that I am against hybrids. I am not particularly against them. I was merely clarifying a few points. What about the hybridization of canids? I don't have an issue with anything in this post other than the confusion over what actually constitutes a hybrid. A hybrid has to be the result of the breeding of two different species. Dogs are all one species. A wolf x dog would result in a hybrid. A Great Dane X Teacup Puddle would not.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

In 1993 dogs were reclassified genetically as a subspecies of the grey wolf. They now fall under Canis Lupus. So technically wolf dogs are not even hybrids anymore. Depending on which science circle you're in, but they are not plants so...

http://www2.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.htm

"A wolfdog is a cross between a gray wolf and a dog--what some refer to as a wolf hybrid. The term "hybrid", however, is used differently in the various scientific disciplines. For example, in horticulture, hybrids are formed by humans as crosses of different 'types' of plants; the term is used equally for crosses both among and within species. Conversely, in evolutionary biology, the term "hybrid" is used almost exclusively to describe offspring arising from a naturally-occurring cross between two separate and genetically distinct species.

(“The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mtDNA sequence....
In comparison, the gray wolf differs from its closest wild relative, the coyote, by about 4% of mitochondrial DNA sequence.&rdquo

So one might recognize the potential for confusion arising from the use of the word "hybrid" when applied to a wolf/dog cross. It is more appropriate to refer to these animals as wolfdogs.

In 1993, the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists reclassified the dog from its separate species designation of Canis familiaris to Canis lupus familiaris. So, now, the Timber wolf (Canis lupus nubilus), the Mackenzie or Tundra wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis), the dog (Canis lupus familiaris ), etc., fall under the genetic umbrella of the gray wolf: Canis lupus."

[kevinb]

I love how intense this post has become....

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[Jessica Loesch]

Hate hybrids such as this...


20 years from now many of us will have a Ball (or blood) in your collection that isn't 100% pure because of this. No matter how careful you think you are...it'll become difficult to trace lineage of new animals as these Super Balls are bred back to balls (or Bloods) of...F3...F4...and so on.

This. If people can leave a hybrid alone without breeding it again five but snakes have long lives with no guarantees

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[Egapal]

In 1993 dogs were reclassified genetically as a subspecies of the grey wolf. They now fall under Canis Lupus. So technically wolf dogs are not even hybrids anymore. Depending on which science circle you're in, but they are not plants so...

http://www2.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.htm

"A wolfdog is a cross between a gray wolf and a dog--what some refer to as a wolf hybrid. The term "hybrid", however, is used differently in the various scientific disciplines. For example, in horticulture, hybrids are formed by humans as crosses of different 'types' of plants; the term is used equally for crosses both among and within species. Conversely, in evolutionary biology, the term "hybrid" is used almost exclusively to describe offspring arising from a naturally-occurring cross between two separate and genetically distinct species.

(“The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mtDNA sequence....
In comparison, the gray wolf differs from its closest wild relative, the coyote, by about 4% of mitochondrial DNA sequence.&rdquo

So one might recognize the potential for confusion arising from the use of the word "hybrid" when applied to a wolf/dog cross. It is more appropriate to refer to these animals as wolfdogs.

In 1993, the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists reclassified the dog from its separate species designation of Canis familiaris to Canis lupus familiaris. So, now, the Timber wolf (Canis lupus nubilus), the Mackenzie or Tundra wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis), the dog (Canis lupus familiaris ), etc., fall under the genetic umbrella of the gray wolf: Canis lupus."

Sure but end of the day I would still call a wolf/dog a hybrid and not a great dane x black lab. At the end of the day speciation is far from black and white. Although earlier I pointed out that often times hybrids are infertile we can hardly use fertility of the resulting offspring as a rule as infertility goes down gradually as the component species become more disperate. I think its really a matter of opinion at this level. Are wolfdogs a hybrid? I would answer the question with another question. Is a carpondro a hybrid? Its a green tree python (morelia viridis) crossed with a carpet (morelia spilota). What about a coastal carpet (Morelia spilota mcdowelli) crossed with a jungle carpet (Morelia spilota cheynei). Personally I consider them all to be hybrids and I would like to see their lines protected as much as we can so that people know what they are breeding so they can pass the information on. Many would call a carpondro a hybrid and not a coastal x jungle. I am guessing Foschi Exotic Serpents falls in that category. I have heard the argument that carpondros aren't hybrids and based on some definitions I wouldn't put up much of a fight.