When to euthanize?

[mitochondria]

Hello Folks...

This is a post I haven't really wanted to make but I think it is time I get others opinions. Some quick background on my snake.

On April 16th I purchased a young male pastel at a local reptile shop. He weighed in at 180 grams. On April 24th he ate 1 F/T mouse. On April 26th I noticed signs of RI and that was confirmed by a vet. He was put on oral Baytril for a month.

At the conclusion of that treatment my snake had still not gotten better. The vet we originally took him to didn't seem very comfortable around snakes so we found a new vet that had a lot of recommendations from reptile owners in our area. The new vet seemed much more comfortable and knowledgeable about snakes. He put my snake on a one month course of injected Ceftazidime every three days.

My snake was still not better so back we went and we are currently on another month of injected antibiotics. I guess were about half way through this course of antibiotics and he is still sick. The vet says sometimes it takes a very long time for a snake to get over an RI and he is not super worried yet.

So there is the background information. Now for some additional problems. My snake has not eaten since that first mouse. He seems completely disinterested in food. I know ball pythons can go off food for extended periods of time, especially when they are stressed. Unfortunately he has also lost over 30 grams of weight during this period as well.

The other problem is he is clearly very stressed. He will no go in his hides. He is almost always out and moving around. If he is sitting still he is usually draped over something. I have no way of knowing but I assume it is because he has found a position where he can breathe easier. At any rate for two months now my snake has avoided his hides and basically been moving around non stop.

I want to do whats best for my snake. All I can think of is that for the past three months he has basically been tortured. He is sick and handled all the time due to medications. I'm afraid that even if we beat the RI he will be some traumatized he will never eat again. Or feel comfortable for that matter.

So what do you guys think? Is this the point where I start to consider putting my snake down? I'm in for the long haul if this situation can be turned around. I would like some opinions on whether or not this situation is as dire as it seems to me.

[Alexandra V]

To be completely honest, euthanizing your animal is completely your call. Nobody can tell you when to have an animal put down.

Whether or not you choose to go with it, what I would say is move the snake to a small enclosure or a tub so it can feel a little more secure. Keep the enclosure dark and keep your husbandry as spot on as you can. 80F cool side, 90F hot. Keep the humidity elevated too, because it will help break up the mucous which might make it a little easier on the snake.

This is just my opinion, but I would wait and see if the treatment he is on right now will help when it is done, and then decide. But that's just what I would do, this is your animal.

Whatever you choose to do, I've got my fingers crossed for your little guy. Good luck with him.

[VicShell]

Hi im not a vet or anything just some info i have learned have you increased the heat and humidity in the snakes tank/tub this will usually help them heal. These steps may help put them over the edge of healing. What type of heat source are you using and and type of enclosure would help us understand there environment. This is important in understanding there situation. If you are willing to keep fighting then keep fighting i wouldn't give up till my snake died but that is just me. Good luck

[mitochondria]

To be completely honest, euthanizing your animal is completely your call. Nobody can tell you when to have an animal put down

I get that completely. I was just really looking for some thoughts on what you would do if faced with a similar situation. I don't have much experience with snakes. I actually have no idea if my snake is suffering and if so how much. I feel like I am in a weird place where I have too little info to make a good choice.

What type of heat source are you using and and type of enclosure would help us understand there environment.

I probably should have included husbandry in the original post. I am using an Ultratherm UTH hooked up to an Hydrofarm thermostat. Temps are measured with both a probe thermometer and a PE2. Hot side temp is 90f, cool side temp is about 80f. The enclosure is a Sterilite 14L tub. Humidity is generally about 60%. Substrate is just newspaper. The tub is in a room that doesn't get much light and there is little commotion.

I have two identical sets of tubs that have the same hides and water bowls. When we give him an injection I change his enclosure out with a completely cleaned and disinfected tub/water bowl/hides/and newspaper.

If you are willing to keep fighting then keep fighting i wouldn't give up till my snake died but that is just me.

I'm certainly willing to keep fighting. It's not an issue of giving up for me, its an issue of making sure my animal doesn't suffer more or longer than it needs to.

[wolfy-hound]

Generally speaking, ball pythons on antibiotics will not eat. So it's not unusual. If he's roaming a lot, maybe he needs a different kind of hide? What type are you using?

I've had snakes go off feed for months, so depending on how emaciated he's gotten, I don't think that it sounds like he's so far gone as to worry yet. Of course, it's you looking at the animal, not me, so I don't know because it's not mine and not in front of me for me to observe. The fact that he's climbing around would seem to be a good sign to me. If he gives up, he'd probably lay around limply or something really odd. Healthy pythons sometimes just roam the enclosure or hide all the time, so nothing you've mentioned sounds terribly out of normal behavior.

There's other things to try yet. Unless you really think he's suffering, I'd give him longer. Reptiles recover slowly, because of the slow metabolism. Patience is key.

[Ham]

He may not feel the need to use the hide becaue he is already in the tub, and feels secure, plus they almost never eat while on antibiotics, you should post a pic of the snake so we can see how thin he looks...

Plus if he is moving around a bunch it sounds like he is not ready to up and die.
I would not euthanize until the snake looks like he will not make it. From what it sounds like he is not anywhere near that point, let the vet finish the course of treatment, and you should bump up the warm side temps to 93F or so. make it slightly warmer to promote healing

[mitochondria]

Well this all sounds positive. To be honest most of my worry has come from him not going into his hide and wandering around all the time. I have actually read on these boards that it is never normal for a BP to be behaving that way so I am relieved that it may be just fine.

The vet didn't tell me that snakes rarely eat while on antibiotics either. If I had known that earlier it would have been good as well. Like I said, he ate the first week. And Antibiotics started after that so now I have some hope he will resume feeding when the antibiotics are over.

I'll try and get a pic of him the next time we take him out to give him a shot. Thank you everyone for the help.

[iCandiBallPythons]

Reptiles have a very slow recovery rate many times, I would just be patient and ride it out

[Jared2608]

I'm definitely not an expert, but from dealing with reptiles at the reptile shop my friend worked at, I've picked up a few things. As others have said, reptiles have a very slow metabolism. This means they can be ill for quite a while without showing it, and conversely they can take quite a long time to show signs of recovery, so if there are any encouraging signs I'd say keep trying. Also, have a chat to the vet and ask for his assesment, if the vet is not too worried then definitely see it through!