Tofee and Albino Compatible!

[TessadasExotics]

In case anyone missed it it's been announced by a guy in Canada that he did the exact same thing last year (only sorta on accident) and it's grown up looking like the Toffees do. I feel that this makes it officially compatible.

http://www.reptilescanada.com/forums...5&postcount=10

Also we know that Albinos and Lavenders are NOT compatible so I feel that is unlikely that the Toffees/Candies are compatible with Lavender Albinos.

I hear what you are saying about Albinos and Lavenders not being compatible, but that does not mean that another morph could not be compatible with both. Like a new hidden gene. It is possible for one to be compatible with both. Guess we will have to wait and see what happens with this project.

[TheSnakeEye]

What exactly does this mean...? That toffee x albino= albino? Thats an expensive way to make an albino

[AaronP]

What exactly does this mean...? That toffee x albino= albino? Thats an expensive way to make an albino

Actually this isn't anything new in the reptile industry. The same thing happens with Reticulated Pythons and the White, Lavender & Purple Phase Albinos. They're all different but they're all compatible with each other. And if it's anything like the Retics were then the prices will still vary based on newness & supply/demand.

I remember when Purple Albino Retics were twice as much as "Lavender" Albino Retics (Because Lav albino retics were the 'regular' albino retic at the time).

I hear what you are saying about Albinos and Lavenders not being compatible, but that does not mean that another morph could not be compatible with both. Like a new hidden gene. It is possible for one to be compatible with both. Guess we will have to wait and see what happens with this project.

Except that isn't how Genetics work. I'd say this is far more similar to the Black Pastels, Cinnamons & Mojaves, Mystics, Phantoms, Lessers, & Butters; where you have two different looking animals that appear to be genetically compatible. Another solid example is Ben Seigel's Orangebelly's. They're compatible with regular Yellowbellys but only Orangebellys can make Graphite Ivories.

Genetics is not as difficult as people like to imagine it is. It's really more so about what we haven't bred together yet vs what we think we know. However we can make reasonable conclusions based on previous breeding attempts that lead to either Success or Failure.

Besides we already have a recessive mutation that does something very similar: Hypos. You have Butterscotch Hypos, Orange Ghost (Hypos) etc and they're compatible but not the same. However Green Hypos & Blue Hypos and a couple of WC lines of Hypo are not compatible with those two, however that doesn't NOT make them Hypomelanistic it's just a different means to the same End. The same could be said for Axanthics as well.

[jsmorphs2]

In my eyes that's a kick square in the nuts of the Toffee/Candy Project.

Yes and no, you still need Toffees to make het Toffees to pair with Albinos/het Albinos. Since there are only a limited number of breeders working with Toffees they can still control the market. Also, there will eventually have to be a way of tracking how pure the Toffee gene is in each animal, Toffee x Toffee - 100% Toffee, Toffee x Albino - 50% Toffee, etc. So higher %s will be more $. That's how I take it anyway.

[jsmorphs2]

What exactly does this mean...? That toffee x albino= albino? Thats an expensive way to make an albino

Toffee x Albino/Het Albino = Toffee or so it seems (I like the Toffino name, lol). They may not fully mature to be as colorful as regular Toffees though, time will tell.

[TessadasExotics]

Except that isn't how Genetics work. I'd say this is far more similar to the Black Pastels, Cinnamons & Mojaves, Mystics, Phantoms, Lessers, & Butters; where you have two different looking animals that appear to be genetically compatible. Another solid example is Ben Seigel's Orangebelly's. They're compatible with regular Yellowbellys but only Orangebellys can make Graphite Ivories.

Genetics is not as difficult as people like to imagine it is. It's really more so about what we haven't bred together yet vs what we think we know. However we can make reasonable conclusions based on previous breeding attempts that lead to either Success or Failure.

Besides we already have a recessive mutation that does something very similar: Hypos. You have Butterscotch Hypos, Orange Ghost (Hypos) etc and they're compatible but not the same. However Green Hypos & Blue Hypos and a couple of WC lines of Hypo are not compatible with those two, however that doesn't NOT make them Hypomelanistic it's just a different means to the same End. The same could be said for Axanthics as well.

It is possible to be compatible with both, that is how genetics work. You can't say it isn't possible untill it is proven other wise. I am not saying they are.... but it is a possibility.

Also there are some Green Hypos that are compatible with the other lines.

[AaronP]

It is possible to be compatible with both, that is how genetics work. You can't say it isn't possible untill it is proven other wise. I am not saying they are.... but it is a possibility.

Also there are some Green Hypos that are compatible with the other lines.

The evidence suggests that they would not be compatible. I feel comfortable with saying that they are not. Since Albinos are Not Compatible with Lavender Albinos then it is a safe bet that Lavender Albinos are Not Compatible with Toffees. The genetic door way doesn't swing 1 way on color mutations. The Lavender is to Albinos what the Ultramel is to Caramels. Except unlike Caramels there is not another morph that is known that is visually different yet still compatible.

I wouldn't be saying this if we didn't already know for a fact that Lavenders are not compatible with Albinos.

And what Green Hypos are you referring to? The only Green Hypos I know of are Greg Graziani's line and they're not compatible with any other Hypo Line especially the 2 most common which are the Orange Ghost and Butterscotch Hypo.

[Tempestas]

Just a shot in the dark here but could the toffee be two genes in play ? Albino and Toffee so they are infact Double Hets, Would explain why it's compatable with the Albino. Just like the leopards at the moment people think they are all het pied and come from the pied gene.

Or it could just be that his het toffee is het albino, I wouldn't be saying anything until more test breedings been done. But would be strange if these albinos turn out to be toffees and all you need is a het toffee and an albino to produce them

[OhhWatALoser]

It is possible to be compatible with both, that is how genetics work. You can't say it isn't possible untill it is proven other wise. I am not saying they are.... but it is a possibility.

Also there are some Green Hypos that are compatible with the other lines.

We have this thing called a locus, this is were said morphs sits, albino and lav albino have already been proven NOT to sit on the same locus and assuming we don't have a dbl het, this guy proves albino and toffee DO sit on the same locus (aka compatible). therefore it cannot be compatible with lav albino since it does not sit on the same locus.

You can never 100% prove anything is what it is, we base what is "fact" off statistics, chance of the guy having a dbl het male unknowingly from a breeder from a toffee project, really low.... so now their compatible until proven otherwise.

there a multiple lines of green hypo, hence the confusion of some being compatible and some not.

[AaronP]

Just a shot in the dark here but could the toffee be two genes in play ? Albino and Toffee so they are infact Double Hets, Would explain why it's compatable with the Albino. Just like the leopards at the moment people think they are all het pied and come from the pied gene.

Or it could just be that his het toffee is het albino, I wouldn't be saying anything until more test breedings been done. But would be strange if these albinos turn out to be toffees and all you need is a het toffee and an albino to produce them

As mentioned earlier in this thread another guy in Canada did the same thing last year and revealed it after Garrick posted his video. It isn't a matter of double hets, they are simply compatible.

I recommend everyone to look into White, Lavender & Purple Phase retics, it's basically the same thing.