Enclosure Question

[TimNA]

A few quick questions if I may?

First off, I just put a down payment on a ball & the tank I was going to use is my old fish aquarium. It a tall hexagon (24"tall, 12" per side & 24"at it widest point) Would this be ok to keep her in for a while?

I was thinking that I could just use the lighting that is with the tank or should I replace it for one of the single heat lights? The lighting I have now is a 24" 4 bulb corallife, it produces a lot of heat. The issue I forsee with this tank is being tall I am unsure if the heat will reach the bottom for a basking spot or just warm the air with either light set up.

I think the plus of being tall is the humidity wont be a factor, but just the heat issue is concerning me.

Thank you all for your time in advance!

[youbeyouibei]

Welcome to BP.net!

A tank that size (20 or 30 gallons?) would be okay for a young snake for a few years. As to the lighting, toss that. It would be useless and would stress your snake out a lot as they can see the visible light spectrum. If you're set on using bulbs to help heat the tank, you should probably look into infrared or moonlight bulbs, as those aren't visible to the animal and will only register as a heat source.

You should definitely look into a UTH or heat mat for the underside of your tank. UTH is under tank heater. ABSOLUTELY set it up to work with a thermostat or a dimmer switch to keep it from getting too hot. Here's a great care sheet and another one that deals with upping the humidity in the tank if that proves to be an issue. Once you get everything set up, monitor your temps and humidity for a few days to let them stabilize before you bring your snake home. Best of luck to you and don't be shy about asking for help!

The general ball python care sheet:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet

A sticky about setting up a glass tank/vivarium:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...p-w-pics-*DUW*

And last but not least, one of the most important things, hides:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...0-Hides-my-way

[TimNA]

Thank you for the welcome & the reply!

I owned a few snakes (burmese, ball, kingsnake) about 20yrs ago so you will have to bear with me because I am sure I will have several questions due to being out of the loop for so long.

I was always told in the past to make sure you have overhead heating, you said "If you're set on using bulbs" so I am assuming it's not really mandatory?

If I get a big enough UTH then overhead lighting really shouldn't be necessary? & assuming with the dimensions I would need a Medium (8x12 zoo med) or even a large (Exo-Terra I found on ebay 11x17)? Being a hexagon I think is going to be a pain with the UTH but, for now I think it will work.

I have a (older) Alife thermostat that I will use, as far as that goes should the probe go in the tank above where the UTH is placed or under where the UTH is? When I used it in the past I put it in the tank on top of the bedding but unsure what is the correct way.

If everything works out I am planning on just building a custom enclosure in the near future for this, I just have to let the wife get over being mad once she finds out..

Thanks again

[youbeyouibei]

Thank you for the welcome & the reply!

I owned a few snakes (burmese, ball, kingsnake) about 20yrs ago so you will have to bear with me because I am sure I will have several questions due to being out of the loop for so long.

I was always told in the past to make sure you have overhead heating, you said "If you're set on using bulbs" so I am assuming it's not really mandatory?

If I get a big enough UTH then overhead lighting really shouldn't be necessary? & assuming with the dimensions I would need a Medium (8x12 zoo med) or even a large (Exo-Terra I found on ebay 11x17)? Being a hexagon I think is going to be a pain with the UTH but, for now I think it will work.

I have a (older) Alife thermostat that I will use, as far as that goes should the probe go in the tank above where the UTH is placed or under where the UTH is? When I used it in the past I put it in the tank on top of the bedding but unsure what is the correct way.

If everything works out I am planning on just building a custom enclosure in the near future for this, I just have to let the wife get over being mad once she finds out..

Thanks again

No problem at all on the reply, happy to help.

Ball pythons need a hot side with temps from 90 - 92 F but as to a "basking spot" with light bulbs, that really isn't necessary nor is it something a ball would be likely to use. They tend to spend most of their time in their hides and so long as you have hides on both the "cool" and the "hot" sides of the tanks, they'll be fine in terms of being able to thermoregulate.

Your UTH should provide enough heat that you don't need overhead lighting. If you find that you do, you might look at ceramic heat emitters, as these don't emit any type of light. They will kill the humidity in a heartbeat, though, which is a drawback to them. Trade-offs with everything, lol! I'd personally go with the higher wattage UTH as opposed to size, so long as it would be large enough to cover 1/3 or so of the bottom of the tank.

You don't want to max out the heating on your UTH and run it at max capacity if you can help it. It'll burn it out quicker and might cause a fire hazard. If you find one that leaves you some wiggle room in terms of being able to up the heat and not have it be at it's maximum to meet your heating requirements, it would be better all around.

I'm not familiar with that thermostat but so long as it's accurate and functions, you should be fine. Proportional or on/off stats either one will work just fine. Absolutely put the probe on the heat mat itself under the tank and cover it to create as much of an airtight seal as possible with metallic tape (HVAC tape, NOT duct, lol!) to help it get as accurate of temps as possible.

I'd recommend you get a hygrometer (measures humidity) and a pair of thermometers (digital rather than analog). Put one thermometer probe on the floor on the "hot" side and the other one on the "cool" side. If you haven't already, you might want to look at getting a temp gun. Rich at Reptile Basics, Inc. has several to choose from, depending on your price range and he's a member on the forums if you have questions. He's a goo guy t deal with and has a great reputation.
His website: (http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermometers).

A temp gun will let you monitor the actual temp of the substrate/floor in the tank on the "hot" side so if you need to adjust it. For instance, on my rack I run my thermostat at 94 degrees to get a heat of 91 - 92 degrees on the floor on the hot side of the tubs.

Good luck with your wife, lol! I hear ya' on that...I just ask forgiveness instead of permission anymore, lmao! Good luck and hope that helps!

[Kymberli]

That enclosure should work alright, the only problem I can really think of will be creating a temperature gradient throughout the enclosure. You are supposed to have a "cool end" and "hot end". If you look at the caresheet it lists the proper temperatures required throughout the enclosure.
Lighting of any kind is unnecessary and bulbs that put off heat will actually more often than not create more humidity issues. The heat from most bulbs pulls the moisture from the air which will lead to you having to constantly mist the cage. Ball Pythons do not need "basking spots" from above because in their natural habitat they are typically underground during daylight and come out for a few hours at night, so they do not bask in the sun. The belly heat will help aid in the snake's digestion and make it easier for it to raise its core temperature as needed. The under tank heater will be placed on one side of the tank, covering at least 1/3 of the surface but no more than 2/3. The snake needs to be able to get away from the heat if it becomes too hot.
As for your last question, the probe for the thermostat should go directly on top of the under tank heater, between it and the tank.

Hope that helps.

[Inknsteel]

I guess I'll be the first to disagree. That tank doesn't sound suitable for a ball python IMO. Could you get away with using it? Sure, you probably could, but it's going to be a HUGE pain to keep temps and humidity where they need to be. The first problem would be the height of the tank. That's A LOT of open air up there that the bp won't make any use of, but heat rises so you'll be heating it anyway. They aren't arboreal, so they don't need room to climb. I would steer away from using heat lamps if you can avoid it as they dry the air out like nothing else. BPs do much better with belly heat as they tend to stay in their hides pretty much constantly, heating the bottom of the enclosure is much more efficient. If you can keep a temperature gradient, or at least a hot spot of 90-92 and a cool spot of 80-84, and manage to keep the humidity up around 50% (bumping up to 70% during shed) you should be ok. But, I would highly recommend looking into a tub setup as a temporary enclosure. You can go to Walmart and pick up a plastic tub, melt or drill some holes in the sides, add some paper towels as substrate, two hides and a water bowl and you have a bp setup for less than $20 (not including heat)...

[ogdentrece]

Loads of good advice above, so I wouldn't repeat everything, just a note of caution. With an enclosure that high, you have to be careful as young balls explore everywhere including up. And they're very clumsy. It MIGHT be able to scale the corners or climb some furniture inside and somehow find its way up. I used to keep my baby in a 1.5ft high enclosure, and I dont know how but he always found his way up, wedged himself in the corner between the ceiling and the wall, and never found a way down except straight down. Freaked me out a lot.

[kitedemon]

I don't agree with everything said but I am picky about details. The tanks isn't a particularly good shape. A tank is fine but one that has height as its longest dimention isn't really the best.

The only thing a really hope you take away from my post is that you set up the whatever you decide is best to keep the animal in at least 10 days before you bring the snake home. I do actually mean completely set up water dish with water and all. It will give you time to muck about and get it right before you subject the animal to big variations.

Lighting isn't proven to be a necessity but also isn't proven not to be either. All that can be said is the oldest snakes in captivity were provided lighting. In the wild they are often seen in early evening and early morning in the sun so what part it has to play is unknown.


belly heat aiding digestion is a complete myth belly or radient heat it make no difference. As far as heat bulbs or ceramic the ball python sees both. The heat pits are very very sensitive and they are conected to optical nerves and in turn the visual cortex. Heat is light just because we can't see it doesn't mean they don't. They see a larger specrum than we do. A near ir bulb (dark red heat bulb) or true ir bulb (ceranmic emitter) both emit light if you can see full ir.

Bulbs do sap humidity, but if you decide that the tall tank is what you are going to use a bulb will likely be needed to bring up the ambient temp, HEAT over humidity worry about providing the correct temps be mildly concerned if the humidity is low. A humid hide fixes humidity issues, no misting no mucking about, mist the moss every week or so.

The ambient temps are also important and often over looked. They speak about surface temps but fail to speak on ambient temps. The ambient temp should be 80-85ºF this is the temp of the air. Not the substrate but the air the snake is breathing. Ball pythons have 2 lungs one is tiny and is not much more than a aid to deep breaths. The other is very long (like all snakes organs are elongated) The lung passes beside the heart and liver and most of the large arteries run beside it as well. If the air is cool the blood is cool and no amount of heating on the surface will heat the core up. AIR temps are what regulate the core temps the surface temp just adds that last little extra bit of heat to allow regulation. This is yet another issue with tall tanks it is hard to regulate the ambient temps unless you heat the room to 80ºF so all the ambient temps are 80.