Fishy or not?

[NoLaHeRpEr]

So I'm looking to get back into breeding. Just to produce some morphs I otherwise would not be able to afford. So I planned to start with just one paring next year, to produce albinos. I sexed my ball python myself for the first time, (since I didn't care earlier, only owned "him" as a display snake) and found that what I was told "might be a male" is actually a female albino. So, I'm now looking for a male albino het to breed with her next year. (If she's ready.) Anyway, I was told that a reputable breeder was local, so I looked him up, and found a male albino het born mid '09 for a VERY good price on his website. However, upon asking for more info, I was told he was only 220 grams. Wow. Isn't that small for an almost two year old bp? So I asked him about this and was told, "Due to the interest in Hets in todays market being low and shipping restrictions on size of snakes for our international customers, we keep these animals at a manageable smaller size. They are feeding great and don't appear to be thin or unhealthy. Once in your possession you can feed them a little more than usual and they will grow to their standard adult size." (c&p from e-mail.) So my question is, am I right and this is total bull, or is there some truth in what he says?

[Ladybugzcrunch]

So I'm looking to get back into breeding. Just to produce some morphs I otherwise would not be able to afford. So I planned to start with just one paring next year, to produce albinos. I sexed my ball python myself for the first time, (since I didn't care earlier, only owned "him" as a display snake) and found that what I was told "might be a male" is actually a female albino. So, I'm now looking for a male albino het to breed with her next year. (If she's ready.) Anyway, I was told that a reputable breeder was local, so I looked him up, and found a male albino het born mid '09 for a VERY good price on his website. However, upon asking for more info, I was told he was only 220 grams. Wow. Isn't that small for an almost two year old bp? So I asked him about this and was told, "Due to the interest in Hets in todays market being low and shipping restrictions on size of snakes for our international customers, we keep these animals at a manageable smaller size. They are feeding great and don't appear to be thin or unhealthy. Once in your possession you can feed them a little more than usual and they will grow to their standard adult size." (c&p from e-mail.) So my question is, am I right and this is total bull, or is there some truth in what he says?

I vote bull. My late 2010 balls are slithering around 200g.

[Freakie_frog]

I can only think of one or two people that are local to you..and if its either one of the two I'm thinking of they are honest people..if they were going to feed you a line it would be that they are younger than they are.

Take it or leave it..

[Luke Martin]

It's no bull. When you've got as many snakes as some have, the cheaper snake and snakes they plan to sell are usually put on a maintenance feeding schedule. This meaning theyre usually fed smaller prey items and a little less often than what you would feed to a snake youre trying to get to breeding size. You cant compare a snake that the person is trying to sell to a snake you're pushing to get to breeding size. I'm not saying its bad or good but the regular person that is trying to get their snakes to size tends to feed a little excessively. The snake you were looking at hasn't been underfed or malnourished...it just hasn't been fed heavily in order to get it to the biggest or breedable size.

[Johan]

It's no bull. When you've got as many snakes as some have, the cheaper snake and snakes they plan to sell are usually put on a maintenance feeding schedule. This meaning theyre usually fed smaller prey items and a little less often than what you would feed to a snake youre trying to get to breeding size. You cant compare a snake that the person is trying to sell to a snake you're pushing to get to breeding size. I'm not saying its bad or good but the regular person that is trying to get their snakes to size tends to feed a little excessively. The snake you were looking at hasn't been underfed or malnourished...it just hasn't been fed heavily in order to get it to the biggest or breedable size.

I find this kind of care really gives organizations like PETA a reason to ban herps. I personally find it a horrible way to do things . People say it doesnt harm the snake as there is little scientific research into it. However, common sense on organisms is that underfed to minimize growth at early stages of life=not good.

[Luke Martin]

Like I said before, they're not underfed. They're just fed less than what most would feed that are trying to get their snakes to breeding size. You could say that the amount we feed to get them to size is harmful to them as well but that's a different discussion in itself. The average person with a pet snake probably feeds their snake less than what this breeder is feeding his maintenance fed animals.

I won't deny there are breeders who take maintenance feeding to another level where their snakes are in fact underfed and malnourished but for the majority of them they do not. That's why you do your research and know what breeders you should or shouldn't buy from.

[fredanthony]

Depending on when it was hatched. It could be a very late 09'. But yah that sounds a little under weight.

[NoLaHeRpEr]

But to me that still makes no sense. Everything we tell new owners and everything you read on caring for bps says to feed young snakes every 7-10 days. (Sometimes even 5-7!) This is told to keepers, not breeders, to ensure the health of your snake. How is it then, that by following these instructions, that a snake of the same age will weigh 2-3 times more? Obviously, this isn't good for the snake. Its apparent to me that the breeder is even aware that he is under feeding these poor snakes because he said in the e-mail, "Once in your possession you can feed them a little more than usual and they will grow to their standard adult size." So, this guy breeds these snakes, then, the ones that aren't morphs are purposely underfed because they won't make him as much money? Sounds a little harsh to me. I wonder what he does with his normals that aren't hets?

[fredanthony]

It's a sad reality that many breeders will invest more in food etc for more profitable snakes. Remember to many it's a business and they're in it for a profit. In no way am I condoning it, just stating the facts. Personally I feel it's better to have less on hand and have them all 100%. Quality not quantity. All your snakes speak for you as breeder.

[NoLaHeRpEr]

Exactly as I feel. For example, based on what he says, he probably feeds his "more profitable" snakes very well. I however, see every individual he offers as a representation of the health of ALL of his snakes. So I will not buy ANYTHING from him. (I too think he just has too much on his plate. He breeds ALOT of herps.)

**What's that expression...You're only as strong as your weakest link?**