My female bp just died! Need some advice please..

[rj1204]

Ok, I am going to start from the begining. On June 12, 2010, I bought 5 BP's from a breeder in town that seemed pretty reputable. I researched him on the internet and the few reviews I found on him were good. He sells on Kingsnake and has hundreds of Boa's and BP's. I liked being able to go to his facility and he showed me everything. I had a good feeling about this breeder so he cut me a package deal on a 1750 gram pastel female (07), a 1000g pastel female (08), 700g bumble bee (08), and two large normal girls (2200 and 3500g) (06's). He advised me he is concentrating more on his Boa's and less on BP's, so he is keeping mainly Mojave's and Albino BP's. I did not handle or mess with these guys at all when I got them home. I put them into their tubs and left them.....checking on them once a day to make sure husbandry was good. Oh yeah, ALL 5 of them were live eaters.

My tubs are 41q sterlite, melamine racks with 3" flexwatt belly heat. Warm end of the tub is 90-91 under the newspaper controlled by a Helix thermostat, cool end is 81-82, humidity is usually 50-65%. The rack is fully enclosed and only open end is the 18" in the front, so it stays dark in the tub and especially the back all the time. My set up is the same as the breeder except for fact his snake room is set at 86* with back heat and not belly heat.

From day one, my 1750g female pastel was pretty nippy. She would hiss when I opened her tub and strike at me when I changed substrate. I just thought it was because she was not settled in, even though all my other BP's settled in fairly quick. After two weeks, I attempted to feed one F/T small rat. The bee and the 1750g female would not eat......EVERYONE else ate and have been eating every single week for the last 9 weeks. I tried again the next week and the bee and her would not take. After that, I decided to put shoe box hides in each tub. After two weeks, I put a LIVE small rat and neither one of them took. The next week, I offered her an adult mouse and she didn't want it either (the breeder advised me he forgot to tell me one of the pastel girls was a mouse eater).

Anyways, 11 days ago, she (1750g female) hissed at me and it sounded horrible. I saw bubbles in her mouth and figured it was an RI. Her weight was down to 1620g too. I took her to the vet the next day and he gave me Baytril to inject into her every other day. He said it looked like the infection had been in her for a bit (not sure how he could tell that) and he believes the RI along with stress of a new home contributed to her getting such an extreme RI. I did exactly what he said....... I quarentined her in my bedroom closet at the other end of the house. I put an UTH hooked to a Herpstat thermostat and kept half the tank at 90-93 and the other half at 78-81. Humidity was around 65%. Her hiss was sounding better after a week of shots, just a little bit of congestion, but I was feeling great and that the infection was going away. I just checked on her and she was belly up! I pulled her out and she was dead, cold as could be and coiled up on the cool side of the tub. I just put her in a plastic bag and put her in the freezer (hopefully the right thing to do).

What the hell happend? Do you think her RI was beyond saving her? Do you think I should contact the breeder and tell him everything? I did tell him she had an RI and he said he does not believe she could have got it at his place. Was I correct to freeze her and should I try to find what the cause was? My 9 other BP's seem fine. I check them every few days and everyone seems comfortable, everyone is eating (except the bee) but he is the same weight as the day I got him.......I haven't even tried to feed him in 2-3 weeks......oh yeah, he pooped for me for the first time and shed last week too, so hopefully he comes around.

Even though my girl was a bit nippy (obviously because she was sick), I feel horrible. I know she was in such discomfort, having to pin her down and give her shots every other day combined with being sick and in a new environment........I can't imagine the stress. The vet said, "if she makes it through this" last week and I thought he was being dramatic. Damn.

[A.VinczeBPs]

That's horrible! Sorry for your loss.
I wouldn't freeze it, but instead get a necropsy done to find out what happened. The fridge might be best if you can't get it done right away.

A bad RI can kill, but I would have thought an adult could pull through. Maybe it was extreme.

[reggi-BP]

im so srry for your lost but i know exactly how u feel my first bp i got the first snake i ever owned deid from RI and i thought i had a got it from a good breeder he never eat i never even seen the snake lick its tongue on an theres only one reptile vet in my city hes always booked an super far away from me now im scared to buy from a breeder or a petstore idk

[wolfy-hound]

Because you've frozen the body, the necropsy isn't going to be possible, I believe. If you think you might necropsy, you want to refridgerate, not freeze.

She could have have a very minor RI that no one could have seen, and that turned into a major one with the stress of being moved etc. It's also not neccessarily that she was nippy because she was in discomfort. Some snakes are just nippy. Added to that, she was getting injections while you were treating, and so she would just be really irritable. But I have a snake that's nippy as heck, perfectly healthy. It happens.

If you're asking about what to do with the seller, I'm not sure there's much you can do. The RI didn't show up in a day.. it took a while. So it could have started at his place, or it could have started at yours. It's very hard to say, especially since you saw his place, and have the same set up. If you got the vet to give you written reports that say the snake HAD to have had the RI at the time of purchase, you might have a case. Most vets won't say that, because it's just hard to say in reptiles.

I'm very sorry that you had your animal die. That's always a tragedy and never easy. I'm sure you did everything you could, but sometimes it's just not meant to be.

[Buttons]

wont be able to get a necropsy done after freezing.... IIRC.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[rj1204]

Thanks for the responses. I decided I am not going to do anything (necropsy), even if I would have refridgerated her. I guess I will just dispose of her body later. My other snakes are ok (right now) so hopefully if they develop any problems, I will catch it ASAP and we will be going straight to the vet. I handle them at least twice a week and so far, no breathing signs, no discomfort, good eating, etc. As far as my girl that passed, the vet did say he is very sure that the RI had been there for a while and just got worse with stress and new environment changes. I guess nobody really knows.

As for the seller, I am not blaming him for anything. The guy has a good reputation and I definetely don't want to get any local breeders upset with me. I think the breeder I bought her from said that he got her in a trade.....so two moves and a mild RI definetely does not go well all together. I would actually buy again from him and I just think I had an unfortunate incident. I did everything I could and spared no expense. I just feel defeated that just 11 days after leaving the vet, she passed.

My only concern now is the bee I got from this breeder. It will be two months this week that he has not eaten since I bought him. I brought him home at 703 grams and two weeks ago, he weighed 706 grams.......so he actually gained a bit (water weight I guess). I put a shoe box hide in with him about 3 weeks ago and last week, he defecated for the first time and shed too. His weight went down to 660g last week but this weekend, he was back up to 696 grams. The breeder recommended I get a live rat pup and leave it overnight since it won't hurt him. Should I be concerned with the bee or is he just being a typical BP that is not eating due to a new environment?

[DC Reptiles]

when I got my male piebald he would not eat for me and I was told by the breeder that he was a live rat feeder. Well after trying for a couple weeks I threw a mouse in there to see what he would do, and he killed it in seconds. Since then whenever I throw a mouse in hes kills it in seconds, I try and throw a rat in and its like its not even there. Have you tried mice?

[RobbinRN]

RJ1204,

First of all, let me say that I am so very sorry for your loss. It sounds like you did all you could to try to treat the RI. While I agree with the other replies that there probably isn't much you can do regarding the breeder, it might be a courteous gesture to let him know about the incident so that he can be sure to closely monitor any of his remaining stock that came into contact with her.

I too live in the DFW area (Mansfield) and don't know too many breeders around here. Believe it or not, I got my male as a baby from Trader's Village and the vet proclaimed him healthy (he's 2-1/2 yrs old now). My female came from Craig's List and the previous owner told me she got her from the same place. She too was healthy. Judging by their display conditions at the TV store, I was pleasantly surprised.

In case you were not aware, there is a small reptile show in Arlington every three or four months. If you are interested, let me know and I will find out when the next one is and perhaps you can check them out.

Robbin

[joepythons]

Wow sorry for your loss

[Quiet Tempest]

Really sorry about your loss.