Which would win out, Black or Blue Eyed Lucy

[Oxylepy]

I was just on Vin Russo's site and discovered this:

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/nss-f...es/Pinto08.jpg

I dont think I've ever seen a white faced pied's eye, but since it's black with the red slit I'm leaning toward the Black Eyed Lucy being the more fundamental/dominant of the two.

[joe23]

the pinto pied is a het russo x pied. as far as i know its from the first breeding. no het russo het pied x het russo het pied.

the same happend with ralph davis blue eyed lucy pied (the whitest pied today). the breeding was lesser x pied.

somehow the pied gene works witht the lucy gene... (the pied is basically a lucy- just not complete lucy)

[Oxylepy]

That's not what I'm asking about.

I'm asking if you had a double super which would end up winning out, the Black Eyed or the Blue Eyed. And I used that to say it's probably the black eyed.

[Eric Sandoval]

They come out with black eyes.

Eric

[RandyRemington]

the pinto pied is a het russo x pied. as far as i know its from the first breeding. no het russo het pied x het russo het pied.

the same happend with ralph davis blue eyed lucy pied (the whitest pied today). the breeding was lesser x pied.

somehow the pied gene works witht the lucy gene... (the pied is basically a lucy- just not complete lucy)

Sorry OT again but I thought RDR's had a lesser het pied father (and some sort of pied gene mother). I remember looking at his pictures of a lesser het pied wondering if lesser made it easier to see the het pied or not. My understanding was that all of these pied gene white or mostly white snakes where homozygous pied but that for some reason even one copy of lesser, mojave, or Vin Russo made the pied very high white or in the case of at least three of the lesser pieds all white. Rich Kensinger posted on KingSnake where he bred a pastel lesser het pied to a pied and produced both all white lesser pied and lesser het pied. There was a follow-up post to mine reporting that Kahl produced some pied lesser that aren’t all white so apparently it varies in lesser pieds.

[joe23]

i thought that first too. i was always aware that it was lesser het pied x pied, but we had a thread about it for two weeks. it was the pairing leeser x pied. at least said that multple persons...

i think that the pied leucism is compatible with the lesser leucistic gene...

can someone say something about this whos 100% sure whats right?

[joe23]

That's not what I'm asking about.

I'm asking if you had a double super which would end up winning out, the Black Eyed or the Blue Eyed. And I used that to say it's probably the black eyed.

the double lucys do exist. its from abredding lesser x fire. but in first generation, u get no lucys- just leeser fires. then they were bread back to each other and produced a black eyed double lucy.


i got a pic from a leucistic rainbowboa with one blue and one black eye.

would be funny if it were that way...

[joe23]

Sorry OT again but I thought RDR's had a lesser het pied father (and some sort of pied gene mother). I remember looking at his pictures of a lesser het pied wondering if lesser made it easier to see the het pied or not. My understanding was that all of these pied gene white or mostly white snakes where homozygous pied but that for some reason even one copy of lesser, mojave, or Vin Russo made the pied very high white or in the case of at least three of the lesser pieds all white. Rich Kensinger posted on KingSnake where he bred a pastel lesser het pied to a pied and produced both all white lesser pied and lesser het pied. There was a follow-up post to mine reporting that Kahl produced some pied lesser that aren’t all white so apparently it varies in lesser pieds.

heres what u wrote about it:

The hypo super mojave is nice and clean.

And odd thing is even just one copy of lesser seems to be enough to turn a homozygous pied to 100% white (at least RDR's first and the two just hatched by Rich Kensinger, saw a post that Kahl has some with a little color on them though). So technically not a BEL if it only has one copy of lesser but I understand a 100% white pied is a whole other level of white.
__________________
Randy Remington
http://www.snakemorphs.com



maybe i get this wrong, but i understood it that way, that the pied lucy was from the breeding lesser x pied. if i understood that wrong, please apologize. sometimes i didnt quite understand everything in english right...

[joe23]

ive just checked it. now hundert percent sure. the lesser (lucy) pied came from a lesser het pied x pied.

and i think i now what u meant. u meant that u need just 1 lesser het pied. so that the lesser (lucy) pied didnt came from a lesser het pied x lesser het pied breeding.

sorry. i did get it totally wrong. i thought u meant u need just a simple lesser (not het pied) and a pied.

i had in mind, that the pied is some sort of leucism and it was logical for me that it worked with the lesser lucy gene.

sorry for posting false informations, but bp wont let me edit it now.

[RandyRemington]

No problem. Just to recap, it seems that an all bright white ball python can be produced by inheriting pied from both parents and lesser from just one parent. So there does seem to be some relationship in that lesser allows the pied to become 100% white (but reportedly not always, but as far as I know the only way to produce a 100% white pied although the Vin Russo and even Spider Pieds are close).